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View Diary: The Case for Creationism (139 comments)

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  •  Unlike that AGW nonsense. nt (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AWhitneyBrown, rebel ga, Matt Z, Nulwee
    •  The relation between a proposition and reality (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AWhitneyBrown, carver

      Truth may be defined philosophically as a testable hypothesis; a measurable relation between a proposition and reality that we have the ability to measure weigh and judge as a testable hypothesis using standards.

      Asking and answering questions about a testable proposition or hypothesis often provides a useful result by stating and comparing positions as paired opposites  and observing which end of the scale a comparative analysis is closest to.

      We can do that with theories of evolution and creation or Becoming and Being or the age of the Bible.

      We find that we  can draw distinctions such as whether we are becoming or being and thus whether we exist or are real.

      If define reality as unchanging and absolute so that "what is is, and that's the way it is, not the way it should be but the way it is" then our is existence is not real because it is constantly changing if simply by growing older.

      A supreme being may be real but by definition wouldn't exist because it is and was and will be what it is, unchanging and absolute.

      The definition of the proposition and the reality is simplified by using paired opposites so that the comparisons are easier and then beginning the process of asking and answering by asking "what is it that makes it what it is and not something else?"  

      Take for example the question of what is true and what is false. What is the relation between the proposition and reality? What is the same and what is different?
      If what we observe when we test a proposition is the same as the testable hypothesis we tend to consider it true and conversely if what we observe is different we tend to consider it false.

      We also want to know whether what we observe is subject to change. Is it a moving target or is it easier to hit because it is fixed in place and at rest.

      In terms of the age of the Bible Ken Kitchen proposed using datable textual artifacts such as the form of contracts, the sequence of blessings and curses used to seal the deal; the price of slaves, and the historical context to compare the stories to the history we consider knowable.

      It turns out that different parts of the Bible were written at different times by different people in different languages and compiled as a collection of wisdom literature that might be considered a law book, or a history, or a collection of standards that can still be used to measure weigh and judge.

      We could think of the beginning of Genesis as at rest because it is dealing with absolutes before there is time or space or any means of comparison. As it begins to add concepts that do change or which define a range Genesis evolves from a concept of a supreme being into a history of our age and the time and space which we have occupied.

      Genesis is presented as a series of paired opposites and the Bible itself is designed to introduce a process of asking and answering questions.

      If you look at the Bible as a collection of numbers there are plenty of places to find them. Not just by taking a census of the people or by calculating how far they traveled between identifiable places that the Bible mentions in sequence as they "wandered" around walking the metes and bounds of their lands between the borders or along the edges of other lands, or by counting up all the laws which accompany the ten commandments or by looking at the number of blessings and curses in their contracts or the price of their slaves; there are arithmetic series and geometric series and many consequences of all these things taken in sequence. There are all kinds of places where we are invited to measure, to weigh and to judge.

      Newton found it interesting to look scientifically at the math problems presented by the standards of measure of the journeys of the Pentateuch which lay out the metes and bounds of the regions we are discussing as setting up the math problems derived from the geometry of Solomon's temple.

      In determining the age of the Bible as the history of a new religion  clearly we want an answer that covers all of the existence of its beliefs as well as the nature of its creators. As regards its peoples the length of the journeys is probably just as important as the time they took or the generations they spanned.

      Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

      by rktect on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 04:39:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you for the serious and lengthy reply. (7+ / 0-)

        Your depth of insight and understanding illuminates us all!

        The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter, they are an entire banquet. Mark Twain

        by AWhitneyBrown on Mon Dec 03, 2012 at 06:59:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm an atheist who finds the Bible interesting (0+ / 0-)

          Perhaps more accurately I find the Penteteuch interesting

          It can be informative to read it as the history of a new religion. That is interesting to me because its constructed in the same manner the Egyptians used to celebrate their deities, and I take their idea of deities as a lot like Platonic ideals.

          This new religion evolves rather than being created and it owes a lot to earlier common law efforts which for me are documented by the stubborn persistence of the standards of measure used to define property.

          The ruler rules, the lugal (sumerian lu = man; gal = big) is made legal and then regal. (There may be some linkage to the large and in charge big nurse that goes back to Catal Hyuk as well.)

          In Egyptian custom the image of the god or goddess or gods and goddesses is carved in stone, the stone is housed in an ark and the ark placed in a sanctuary.

          If you look at the rock in the box the Sons of Israel carried around in their ark its the ten commandments. That's the image of the written law carved in stone. Its considered to be sovereign over all the other gods including the spoken word of the Pharoah.

          I see that part of the Bible as a lawbook transitioning from the common law of precedent to Mosaic Law with a consensus to be law abiding based on the doing of what is right and proper.

          In essence we have the wisdom of Solomon's Asherah combined with the power of the Mosaic law to give birth to justice and judges as competent administrators in a place Moses never gets to.

          The story of Adam and Eve deals with the rights of tenants and landlords in terms of might makes right.

          The story of Abram/Abraham and Sarai/Sarah begins to think about fairness as it deals with the rights of inheritance for the offspring of a first sister wife who goes with other men as compared to the offspring of a second wife or handmaiden.

          Abraham, Moses and Joseph are datable by the historic context of a number of campaigns against Kadesh spanning half a millenia  to a period when Egypt corresponds with Cannan in semitic akkadian in the Amarna letters.

          Canaan is considered an evil lawless place where the only real law is force of arms by bandit, king or rebel. At one end you have the proto-sharia eye for an eye law of Ha m mu rabbi (the great rabbi) and at the other the Hotep of Egypt defined as the doing of what is right and proper.

          Sarai/Sarah share the semitic triliteral root with Shariah law while Hagar equates to Hathor the goddess of Afroasiatic Hotep, the law viewed as the feather of Ma'at which is placed in the scales to balance the truth against the doing to determine what is right and proper. (Ha is the semitic definitive article) The Phoenician equivalent is Ashera, western semitic Sheba, Greek Hera.

          Abraham brings the connection of  the concept of common law as it exists in in Babylon and Thebes  into Canaan in the form of compacts or treaties with the powers that be.

          The essence of the natural philosophy involved requires a consensus of all the essential powers,  earth, air, water and fire.

          These are El shaddai, (Shamsi Adad of Mari, lord of the land in the time of Rim Sin) Yahwah, the power of the storm, east wind or air, Gk Zepherus west wind) El Roi, Hagars power of the well or water which saves her, and Moloch, the power of fire through which Abraham prepares to pass his first born on the slopes of Mt Moriah on the border of what is then Moab.

          Now the story broadens to include the asiatic part of this indo European - afro asiatic movement toward a consensus to be law abiding.

          In the 18th Dynasty Thebes had a series of Red Sea ports where Hatshepset kept a fleet for the mortuary trade bringing frankincense and myhr across the Red Sea in exchange for Nub or Egyptian gold from Nubia..

          The Exodus from Egypt crosses the Red Sea from Elim (modern Quasir in Egypt to Elat at the head of the Gulf of Aqaba where Horab (the mountain of God) is literally in the middle between Midian, Egypt, Edom, Rephidim, and the kingdoms of Canaan. The encampment prior to departure is at Pi Ha Haroth a migdol or high place facing Baal Zephon.

          To get a true picture of this consider that at  the time of the Exodus the capitol of Egypt was at Thebes and Thebes primary industry was the maintenance of the mortuary temples at Karnak which was dependent of the trade in linen, bitumen, natron, Frankincense, Myhr, Juniper berries and other mummification essentials which were brought across the Red Sea in exchange for Nub or gold from Nubia. There is only one place where all of these elements are brought together as required by the story.

          In one of these mortuary temples of Karnak, in a tomb called Succoth (Egyptian for dark place) rested the bones of Joseph which the sons of Israel took with them.

          In Greek times Egypts Red Sea ports included Philidelphia, a  temple of (Phoenician) Baal sacred to the west wind(Greek Zepherus).

          This continued the tradition of Pi ha Haroth the temple of Baals consort Hathor or Ashera, which had as an oracle the mouth of the law [Hotep] who spoke thoth (truth) or wisdom in the form of  delphic auguries.

          Stories ranging from the Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor dated to the 12th Dynasty to the Periplus of the Erythrian Sea written in Greek times describe how traders engaged in Karnaks mortuary trade across the Red Sea between Egyptian Elim (El plural feminine) and  Phoenician Semitic Elath at the head of the gulf of Aqaba.

          Both Elim and  Eloth, Eliat, (El plural feminine) were  part of the chain of Aphrodite, a series of wooded oasis or sacred groves (teraphim) in which grow large sturdy trees large enough to use as masts.

          To make a long story short to begin with the power who controlled the water controlled the land.

          In a time when the most important waters were contained in a uterus there was matriarchy. As the most important waters became those which fertilized crops or carried international trade patriarchs came to rule.

          The story of the parting of the waters in Mosaic times or at least the part of it I'm interested in documents the beginning of record keeping.

          Record keeping  for purposes of maintaining law and order began with standards of measure with which to measure weigh and judge.

          A desire to build consensus by means of a compact to be law abiding gradually evolved all the necessary infrastructure of administration.

          Eventually that developing into a need for competent administers, scribes, judges, and other politicians to be able to agree on what the standards were.

          Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

          by rktect on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 06:03:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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