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View Diary: To Boldy Go... Into Darkness (85 comments)

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  •  I'm one of the Trek fans who thinks the "reboot" (7+ / 0-)

    is an insult.  There was no trace of the optimism, wonder, philosophy, and curious inquiry of Star Trek in that ridiculous product-placement-riddled action movie, and no doubt this new one will be even worse.  

    In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

    by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 10:58:03 AM PST

    •  I was OK with the first one (6+ / 0-)

      NEARLY PERFECT:  CASTING
      GREAT:  Character Arcs/story
      OK, BUT ENOUGH WITH THE VILLAINS*:  Nero, action
      NO:  Science lapses (Spock seeing Vulcan blow-up from another planet, coincidence of Kirk landing at Spock's doorstep, beaming into a warping ship)

      I really want someone to make a freakin' Star Trek without a villain - many of the best episodes of TOS have no villain (City On the Edge of Forever) and are about ideas or how the ideas encountered impact the characters -- make THAT movie next time and I'll give this reboot the green light

      The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

      by jgkojak on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 11:08:10 AM PST

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      •  Totally agree. (0+ / 0-)

        The best episode of all the series put together didn't have a villain - the TNG episode The Inner Light.  If the damn studio rats can't figure out how to sell that, then that's something wrong with them, not with Star Trek.

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

        by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 11:14:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed. (0+ / 0-)

        My best friend as a child was into Star Wars like I was into Star Trek, and he always had to conceptualize Trek in terms of who they were fighting.  The rebels fight the Empire and the Federation fights the Klingons.  I could never quite explain to him how often nobody was fighting anybody, or that even when they were, much of the time it was about misunderstandings rather than anyone being an actual bad guy.

        "If Mitt takes office, sooner or later, the Zomnies will come for all of us." -Joss Whedon

        by quillsinister on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 03:05:53 PM PST

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    •  I had issues with it too (6+ / 0-)

      The temptation to try to tell exciting new stories about old familiar material is very strong.  That's the main reason I was so skeptical of Enterprise, especially when it was still rumored to be centered around Kirk as a cadet; at the back of your mind there's the fear that they're just not trying anymore.   But by all accounts the movie put Star Trek back on the map so in that sense it succeeded as a reboot.

      I'd love to see Star Trek back on TV: maybe on HBO where people expect and will reliably pay for quality shows.  "Prime" timeline, set in the future relative to past series, a transwarp ship on a mission of exploration around the galactic bulge with its very real cosmic weirdness and full of people every bit as noble or fucked up as the real world ... I've given it way too much thought :)

      To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

      by Visceral on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 11:56:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I want to see Trek back on TV too. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ericlewis0, Aspe4, Visceral

        I've even enjoyed mulling how I would treat the material.  My thinking is that it should be more literal and true to human reality, and yet not compromise any of the utopian philosophy and wonder - in other words, raise the stakes to an entirely new level of the qualities that made the franchise great while making it all the more inspiring and believable.  

        I even thought of a great way to introduce a new series: Start out showing cast from previous series doing like they did before, and make you think things are the same, but then after a few minutes zoom out and show that this is actually just an educational/entertainment program for kids and the actual Star Trek reality is really complex, awesome, and kaleidoscopic.

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

        by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 12:04:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  couldn't have said it better myself (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Troubadour
          My thinking is that it should be more literal and true to human reality, and yet not compromise any of the utopian philosophy and wonder - in other words, raise the stakes to an entirely new level of the qualities that made the franchise great while making it all the more inspiring and believable.
          I get the anger at DS9 for trying to deconstruct the utopian ideal.  Putting an unambiguously good and heroic Starfleet crew into a kind of "Star Trek vs. the real world" situation is exactly the approach I would take.  Local socioeconomics causing problems for our crew, answer the wrong distress signal and end up getting put on that side of a [cold] war, Federation ideals giving the downtrodden ideas as well as inspiring fear and hate in the local teabaggers, PTBs who just plain don't believe that you're peaceful explorers because they wouldn't be.  You don't need a cackling superpowered lunatic in order to have a powerful and despicable villain; there's plenty of all too human evil out there that can be turned into a villain of the week or the big bad of the series.

          I would draw the line at trying to rip off BSG though.  They definitely went too far for my taste with the gritty realism and Survivor-in-Space atmosphere.  Trying to rip off BSG is what killed the Stargate franchise with a plodding soap opera full of backstabbing incompetents.  These people are skilled professionals, they want to be out here, they're all on the same side and they know it,

          To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

          by Visceral on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 01:39:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I wouldn't make it anything at all like BSG. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Visceral

            I wouldn't make it like anything that's ever been done before - it would basically be TNG on steroids, with the utopian ideals and philosophies articulated into the complexities of a real, physical world.  Not like DS9 really either, because there would be no compromises - the only acceptable solutions to problems would be creative, outside-the-box ones, no zero-sum compromises.

            In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

            by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:41:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  It preceded Progressives in its vision of not (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Troubadour, Visceral

          only multi racial relations and equality amongst humans but an acceptance of the actual alien to earths experience as an equal and friend. It was corny as hell at times but such a heart song for those who had hopes of a better way. I still cry at the scene where Spock saved the enterprise with his own life. I loved that show to the point that I could do the dialogue from any show or movie on cue. We could sure use a iconic show about progressing above the primate in us... not reveling in its most base aspects. Even the pugnacious Kirk grew.

          It was and always will be one of my favorite shows.

          Fear is the Mind Killer...

          by boophus on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:27:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I like the cut of your jib, sir. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Troubadour

        I would watch that show.

        "If Mitt takes office, sooner or later, the Zomnies will come for all of us." -Joss Whedon

        by quillsinister on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 03:07:50 PM PST

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    •  Me too. (4+ / 0-)

      It isn't even dark and edgy.

      or satirical like Starship Troopers.

      it's just a bland-ass American action movie.

      pseudoscience can kill

      by terrypinder on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 12:24:15 PM PST

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    •  It is an Insult, But I'm Resigned to the Fact (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Troubadour

      that I can't stop it. The new Trek had corporate product placement (Nokia cellphone). Gene Roddenberry is spinning in his grave. The new Trek takes 21st century people and sensibilities and gives them 23rd century technology and weapons. A greedy corporatist like Mitt Romney would never exist on the Earth of the Star Trek Prime universe, but he would be at home in this new one.

      "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

      by Aspe4 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 12:36:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not resigned to any of it. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aspe4, quillsinister

        They can do whatever they want, but Star Trek remains Star Trek - and shit remains shit, regardless of what label they slap on it.

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

        by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 12:38:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Idea for a spoof of the "reboot" series: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aspe4

        Show the guy from "300" in a Star Fleet uniform kicking someone into a hole and shouting "This...Is...STAR TREK!"

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

        by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 12:41:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  roddenberry certainly is spinning :) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Troubadour, Aspe4

        his ashes are in orbit.

        pseudoscience can kill

        by terrypinder on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 01:02:23 PM PST

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      •  An insult? Really? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rimjob, Aspe4

        After Voyager, we can't get any lower. The reboot is a step up.

        •  VOY had different problems (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mythatsme, Troubadour

          Voyager's flaws pretty much all boil down to bad/lazy writing.  The premise was sound; they just didn't do much with it.

          The core of the argument against the new movie(s) is much more fundamental: from the whole canon/timeline issue to atmosphere and characterization - is it Star Trek or isn't it?  

          To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

          by Visceral on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 01:53:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  zubalove: I blame Berman (0+ / 0-)

          for turning it into a cash cow first .........

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 02:32:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  voyager coulda been something great (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cskendrick, mythatsme

          almost Battlestar Galactica esque. But, it had shitty, shitty writing, and suffered from being in DS9's shadow.

          I actually rewatched most of Enterprise recently and found it really wasn't bad, especially season 4.

          pseudoscience can kill

          by terrypinder on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 03:16:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  That's crazy talk. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aspe4

          Enterprise was the low point, with its jarring, post-9/11 transition into that nonsensical attack on Earth and the quest for vengeance/extermination.

          Voyager, on the other hand, I really think achieved some of the best writing of the franchise.  It also had some incredibly ridiculous episodes, but they didn't offend nearly as much as the ridiculous ones from other series.  My God, the baseball game in DS9?  The guys in vegetable costumes in TOS?  I'll suffer through the Voyager Q episodes rather than watch that crap.

          Voyager was a more integrated series than TOS or TNG, a more imaginative and optimistic series than DS9, and it was actual Star Trek, unlike most of Enterprise or this NASCAR fan JJ Abrams crap.

          In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

          by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:48:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Totally Disagree (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aspe4

            I don't like "Voyager" at all, and probably agree with the camp that wants to throw it out of continuity, since it creates a lot of stupid plot elements. (e.g., Advanced space-faring dinosaurs that escaped Earth millions of years ago?)

            • "Voyager" doesn't take its characters, its main plot (a ship stranded far from home), or the Trek concepts that had been developed over decades seriously. How many shuttlecraft did this ship leave the Alpha Quadrant with, since they seem to lose one every week? They're never really willing to commit to the idea of showing the problems a ship & crew all alone in the middle of nowhere would have, or the fractures that would occur among the people on-board. You get one episode where people are at each other's throats, and in the very next everyone is having fun in the Holodeck. And don't get me started on how badly "Voyage" screws up the Borg.
            • The show has an awful depiction of Native Americans. In the entirety of Trek, hardly if ever do the characters mention or even acknowledge racial divisions among humanity, and if they do it's usually in a historical context. There have been episodes where the main characters or aliens are searching for someone, and they will go through the vital statistics (age, weight, height, etc.)  and when it comes to race the only thing that's said is "human." But with Chakotay, the writers & producers on "Voyager" treated Native Americans as almost an alien race with customs and "powers" that were separate & different from humanity.
            • With "Voyager," there seemed to be a philosophy that when in need of a ratings boost, forget about coherent writing & just put Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan) in a tighter catsuit or have her take her clothes off.

            In my eyes, "Deep Space Nine" is right up there with "The Original Series" in terms of quality, and arguably the best series in the franchise.

            The central theme at the heart of "Deep Space Nine" is an examination of how "good" the Federation actually is. Ideals & principles are great, but they only mean anything when they are tested & held to when made inconvenient.

            The Dominion War pushes Starfleet & the Federation to the breaking point, and the stories are really about how well the characters, and the institutions Gene Roddenberry had set up as a quasi-Utopian paradise, either do or don't hold to the established Trek morality.

    •  Yes! That's what I'm saying! (0+ / 0-)

      Star Trek was so much more than just a space shoot 'em up.

      "If Mitt takes office, sooner or later, the Zomnies will come for all of us." -Joss Whedon

      by quillsinister on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 03:00:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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