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View Diary: To Boldy Go... Into Darkness (85 comments)

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  •  An insult? Really? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, Aspe4

    After Voyager, we can't get any lower. The reboot is a step up.

    •  VOY had different problems (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mythatsme, Troubadour

      Voyager's flaws pretty much all boil down to bad/lazy writing.  The premise was sound; they just didn't do much with it.

      The core of the argument against the new movie(s) is much more fundamental: from the whole canon/timeline issue to atmosphere and characterization - is it Star Trek or isn't it?  

      To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

      by Visceral on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 01:53:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  zubalove: I blame Berman (0+ / 0-)

      for turning it into a cash cow first .........

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 02:32:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  voyager coulda been something great (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cskendrick, mythatsme

      almost Battlestar Galactica esque. But, it had shitty, shitty writing, and suffered from being in DS9's shadow.

      I actually rewatched most of Enterprise recently and found it really wasn't bad, especially season 4.

      pseudoscience can kill

      by terrypinder on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 03:16:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's crazy talk. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aspe4

      Enterprise was the low point, with its jarring, post-9/11 transition into that nonsensical attack on Earth and the quest for vengeance/extermination.

      Voyager, on the other hand, I really think achieved some of the best writing of the franchise.  It also had some incredibly ridiculous episodes, but they didn't offend nearly as much as the ridiculous ones from other series.  My God, the baseball game in DS9?  The guys in vegetable costumes in TOS?  I'll suffer through the Voyager Q episodes rather than watch that crap.

      Voyager was a more integrated series than TOS or TNG, a more imaginative and optimistic series than DS9, and it was actual Star Trek, unlike most of Enterprise or this NASCAR fan JJ Abrams crap.

      In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

      by Troubadour on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:48:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Totally Disagree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aspe4

        I don't like "Voyager" at all, and probably agree with the camp that wants to throw it out of continuity, since it creates a lot of stupid plot elements. (e.g., Advanced space-faring dinosaurs that escaped Earth millions of years ago?)

        • "Voyager" doesn't take its characters, its main plot (a ship stranded far from home), or the Trek concepts that had been developed over decades seriously. How many shuttlecraft did this ship leave the Alpha Quadrant with, since they seem to lose one every week? They're never really willing to commit to the idea of showing the problems a ship & crew all alone in the middle of nowhere would have, or the fractures that would occur among the people on-board. You get one episode where people are at each other's throats, and in the very next everyone is having fun in the Holodeck. And don't get me started on how badly "Voyage" screws up the Borg.
        • The show has an awful depiction of Native Americans. In the entirety of Trek, hardly if ever do the characters mention or even acknowledge racial divisions among humanity, and if they do it's usually in a historical context. There have been episodes where the main characters or aliens are searching for someone, and they will go through the vital statistics (age, weight, height, etc.)  and when it comes to race the only thing that's said is "human." But with Chakotay, the writers & producers on "Voyager" treated Native Americans as almost an alien race with customs and "powers" that were separate & different from humanity.
        • With "Voyager," there seemed to be a philosophy that when in need of a ratings boost, forget about coherent writing & just put Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan) in a tighter catsuit or have her take her clothes off.

        In my eyes, "Deep Space Nine" is right up there with "The Original Series" in terms of quality, and arguably the best series in the franchise.

        The central theme at the heart of "Deep Space Nine" is an examination of how "good" the Federation actually is. Ideals & principles are great, but they only mean anything when they are tested & held to when made inconvenient.

        The Dominion War pushes Starfleet & the Federation to the breaking point, and the stories are really about how well the characters, and the institutions Gene Roddenberry had set up as a quasi-Utopian paradise, either do or don't hold to the established Trek morality.

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