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View Diary: Origins of English: Some Rare Words (185 comments)

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  •  That all very fascinating. I'm under the (2+ / 0-)
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    amsterdam, Ojibwa

    impression that a lot of people underestimate the degree to which populations moved and people intermarried even before a couple of centuries ago. A British boyfriend once asked me why Americans seemed to know so much more about their family histories than the English he knew did. I had to think about it a bit, then I realized that part of the reason was that many Americans have a reference point, which is when their families came to the U.S. Very few people seem to have accounts of their families before that point. So it winds up giving a relatively simplified view. When I first signed up for Skype, I looked up to see if there was anyone else using it with my surname, which is uncommon. I found someone in Italy and his first name was Italian. There wasn't anyone else. I have a friend whose family came here from France, but they have a Dutch, or possibly Flemish, name. Then I've known people with names like Ouellon, which give an indication that they've come from someplace else.

    Then of course there's the simple matter that the number of ancestors a person has grows exponentially with every generation, so most people only know of a couple lines. I'd be curious to do one of those DNA ancestry things because I honestly don't know what would come up. I don't have a strong ethnic identity in any direction, so it would just be curiosity.

    •  fascinating isn't it? (2+ / 0-)
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      FourthOfJulyAsburyPark, Ojibwa

      My grandfather on my father's side is chinese, and on his mother's side french, belgian and german. I knew about that. But I thought my mother's side was pulled out of dutch clay.

      I was surprised to say the least. I never knew the name Minek, which was given to at least one of the sons in her family, was an abbreviation of Dominicus, the name of the patriarch from Italy.
      I was lucky that some of my ancestors were also the ancestors of people who spend a lot of time researching and documenting online.

      You can check your name in the Database of Surnames in the Netherlands

      The first page is in English. Some of the analysis and other documentation is in dutch. I can help you with a translation if you like. You can send me message if you don't want to plaster it on this site.

      •  Thanks for the link. (2+ / 0-)
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        amsterdam, Ojibwa

        It seems that there is no longer anyone in the country with my surname. There was a single person in North Holland in 1947. Apparently, the family has either dwindled or left. My father would not be thrilled to hear that, but he passed away himself a few years ago. There's not much family left on this side of the Atlantic either. I guess if there was I wouldn't be spending the holidays abroad rather than at home.

        I was just reminded of a woman with whom I went to graduate school who was from Taiwan. She told me that she had some Dutch ancestors and her sister had blue eyes. She, on the other hand, appeared entirely Chinese.

        •  The name may have changed (2+ / 0-)
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          FourthOfJulyAsburyPark, Ojibwa

          If the name is uncommon you can try googling it with the word geneology. Maybe it is part of someone's familly tree.

          The Dutch colonized Taiwan from 1624 to 1662, that may explain the Dutch ancestors.
          I showed a Taiwanese friend of mine, how my name is written in chinese, she told me I share my name with the Chinese admiral that defeated the Dutch and kicked them out of Taiwan. Kind of ironic isn't it.

          I am sorry you don't have too many relatives left. In some way we are all related. I believe the estimate for how many people left Africa and ended up populating the other continents, is 6000.

          Funny idea how your relatives and mine occupied and shared that small insignificant part of the world.

          •  I once tried looking on genealogy sites around (2+ / 0-)
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            amsterdam, Ojibwa

            1999 or 2000 and found next to nothing, except a couple people I already knew personally like my grandfather. The name appears so French that I once had a Frenchman insist that I look it up. He was certain that there had to be someone with my name in France, but there wasn't. Well, this time I did get something. Apparently a woman with my surname got married on the island of Texel in 1837. The name is uncommon enough that almost anyone with the same name is almost certainly at least distantly related. I did find this pagewhere someone posted information about emigrants from Texel. There is someone with the right surname, but the wrong first name and wrong profession. On the other hand, my father came from a family of morticians and there was a tendency to obfuscate regarding their trade.

            It also seems that someone bought a house in New Amsterdam in 1657.

            Well, on the plus side, I can't say that I was so overwhelmed that it took me ages to sort through it. It was interesting to find anything at all this time. The twentieth century census entries are almost all people I can identify like my grandfather and his brother.

            I'm not sure any part of the world is or more or less insignificant than any other. The title of the book I mentioned comes from a letter that an early explorer sent back to Holland encouraging settlement because he felt that the way the island was situated it would one day be the center of the world. That's surprisingly prescient when you consider that it probably appeared like a small and insignificant place at the time.

            •  I did some checking for you (2+ / 0-)
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              Ojibwa, FourthOfJulyAsburyPark

              The name is almost certainly changed. Originally it would have been written with ou. Names that are written with an e or a u, were also originally written with ou. Most likely they came from Valenciennes, but in dutch registers it is often spelled Valencijn.

              It is really interesting. I was told my great-grandmother was descendant from huguenots, but that is what we assume here when we have French ancestors.

              I've been amusing myself with a listing of marriage and birth
              registrations in the city of Leiden in the 17th century, of people who were born in Valenciennes. If you look at the alias' you can see how fluid names were used.

              If your ancestors lived in Amsterdam it is very likely that they attended De Waalse Kerk the french language protestant church.

              I will definitely look for the book.

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