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View Diary: Most famous wolf killed by hunter when pack ranged just outside Yellowstone (283 comments)

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  •  FTR, only wolves in Wyoming were delisted this... (10+ / 0-)

    ...year. Wolves were delisted in Idaho and Montana in the first half of 2011.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 01:36:58 AM PST

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    •  I think MI is going to do the same in the UP. (0+ / 0-)

      Or is it the linx?   I understand wildlife management - even though I don't like the idea killing/dying.   Then again, there's so much in life that isn't fair, makes no sense, I wish wasn't true I couldn't begin to list them.

      If money is speech, then speech must be money.

      by dkmich on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 07:03:43 AM PST

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      •  i don't understand it, it's always done with (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tyto Alba, atana, cany

        first concern for economic benefits not for the benefit of the ecosystem or wildlife. Think about the Fish & Wildlife leg hold traps they still use for so-called predators - those traps are killing many non predatory species.

        ❧To thine ownself be true

        by Agathena on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 08:10:35 AM PST

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        •  Don't confuse "wildlife management" (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cocinero, Meteor Blades, cany

          with conservation biology. Wildlife management is about maximizing benefits for humans, which means maximizing economic benefits. Conservation biology is about maintaining biological diversity, which requires healthy metapopulations of predators such as wolves.

          •  In Canada our Fish & Wildlife call themselves (0+ / 0-)

            conservation officers. Since hunting and trophy hunting are big business up here, if they don't conserve the species there will be no "economic benefits."

            ❧To thine ownself be true

            by Agathena on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 10:44:49 AM PST

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          •  Good point. (0+ / 0-)

            The DNR in my state "manages" the overpopulated deer herd to maximize hunter success (and license revenue). The overpopulation of deer is harmful to other wildlife -- ground nesting birds, forest floor plants, etc, as well as a significant hazard for motorists.

            •  Deer overpopulation is a result of the killing (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cocinero, atana, White Buffalo, kyril

              of their predators, like wolves and cougars. Really good management that.

              ❧To thine ownself be true

              by Agathena on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 10:56:44 AM PST

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              •  I would refer to people being (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                able to hunt, instead of animals that kill pets and livestock as good management.

              •  That is partly true (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Agathena, cocinero, FrankRose

                It's also true that deer, and certain other animals like squirrels, foxes, raccoons, crows, seagulls and others not just tolerate but actually thrive near human populations.

                We plant millions of tasty shrubs in the suburbs to help deer overwinter.  We plant crops and a certain percent get left standing in fields.   Deer are animals that thrive in the margins between woods and fields, and we have created millions of acres of that habitat where it previously did not exist.  

                Humans are not bad for all wildlife.  They are bad for wildlife that prefers old growth forests, needs thousands of acres to roam, etc.

                Humans are good for deer; we create deer habitat in developments and farms all over the country.

                •  Yes, I think clear cutting the forests gives the (0+ / 0-)

                  deer population a boost, they have all those new shoots that sprout when the sunlight hits the devastated landscape.

                  ❧To thine ownself be true

                  by Agathena on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 02:21:02 PM PST

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                  •  Actually, they don't thrive in clear cut areas (0+ / 0-)

                    At least not whitetail deer.

                    They thrive in areas bordering forestland, again at least whitetail do.

                    Old growth forests are only hospitable to certain species, and in a natural setting patches of forest would routinely be cleared or thinned by fires.  

                    There is a move towards more responsible harvesting of forests for lumber, with spot-culling rather than clear-cutting.  

              •  There has been no natural ecosystem for deer (0+ / 0-)

                in Iowa for more than 120 years. The ecosystem with deer, elk, and bison controlled by wolves and cougars disappeared in the 1800s. Deer were wiped out by 1898 when deer hunting season was finally closed. Deer returned very slowly. By 1936, there were still only about 600 deer in the state. Hunting was allowed again in 1953. The population has continued to increase in an ecosystem of corn and bean fields, farms, towns, and scattered wooded tracts. The "predators" controlling the population are hunters. The DNR decides how many licenses and tags to issue in order to control population size.

                Deer are "wildlife" in the same sense as non-native species like ring-necked pheasants and starlings. Unlike starlings, deer and pheasants are good to eat and some people enjoy shooting them.

    •  And this was by Congressional act I beleive (0+ / 0-)

      Those delistings were legally quite complicated, and not under the normal section 4 delistin process

      Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

      by Mindful Nature on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 08:18:39 AM PST

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