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View Diary: Father accidentally shoots 7 year old son (368 comments)

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  •  Anyone who's not... (7+ / 0-)

    ...a fucking idiot doesn't forget to check the chamber.

    •  Yep. Why was that gun not holstered... (15+ / 0-)

      ...or cased when he was getting into the car? Why was that muzzle pointed at anything other than the ground? Why was there a round in the chamber?

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 02:51:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're asking questions presuming facts... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PavePusher

        ...not in evidence.  Aside from the obvious--the handgun was loaded and charged, and the child suffered a GSW to the chest--we have absolutely no idea what happened here.

        •  Since we don't have the police ... (8+ / 0-)

          ...report—much of which is, by necessity, going to be simply the story that the guy who shot his son to death said to the cops—the questions I am asking are, by necessity, based on the newspaper report. That is based either on the police report or the reporter's discussion with the police. Just like the police report itself, this may contain inaccuracies.

          However:

          We DO know that the muzzle of the gun was pointed somewhere other than the ground unless the child was lying on the ground when he was shot. We DO know that the gun was not cased because cased guns do not "go off" accidentally. We DO know that the safety was off (unless it was defective) because guns with working safeties on do not "go off" accidentally. The gun MAY have been holstered, but that's unlikely. And we know that a 44-year-old was careless, and possibly reckless.

          So contrary to your claims, we DO know more than simply that the child died of a gunshot wound.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 10:31:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  More detail now. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PavePusher

            From Bend Bulletin:

            Loughrey put the boy in the passenger seat and loaded the rifle into the truck, state police said. He was attempting to get inside and reached to put the handgun in the center console when it fired, they said.
            •  As I am sure you will agree, there are ... (8+ / 0-)

              ...two things wrong with that second sentence unless magic was involved: he didn't merely reach for the gun and it didn't just fire by itself.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 10:57:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Again, don't know. (0+ / 0-)

                Will wait for details.

                •  So, you believe he wasn't touching that gun... (5+ / 0-)

                  ...when it fired?

                  Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                  by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 11:07:35 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No. (0+ / 0-)

                    According to the report, he was placing it in the center console (between the driver seat and passenger seat).

                    •  The problem with the report in question is that... (7+ / 0-)

                      ...it says:

                      "A man’s handgun went off..."

                      "reached to put the handgun in the center console when it fired..."

                      "went off" and "when it fired" makes it seem, as I am sure the understandably distraught father wants to convince himself and everyone else, that the firearm did these things and had nothing to do with his mishandling of it.

                      Presumably, since there was no arrest or charges filed in this case, the father is licensed to carry in Pennsylvania; otherwise he was in violation of the law requiring firearms to be transported unloaded.

                      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                      by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 11:40:18 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I agree, but it also seems like part of (3+ / 0-)

                        why this story has so much media traction is because of how rare it is compared to stuff like people accidentally killing their kids in a wide variety of other ways, as horrifying as this is.

                        If we want to talk about parental negligence, then we have to open the discussion up, I feel, to a full discussion of the matter.

                        Note: this is per 100,000 children -- sorry about the format, it's not working:

                        Accidental child deaths           total #     percent
                        Motor Vehicle                           6,683       8.1    
                        Drowning                           1,056       1.3    
                        Fire/Burn                                      544       0.7    
                        Poisoning                              972         1.2    
                        Suffocation/Strangulation     1,263       1.5     Firearm                                      138         0.2
                        From what I can see online, a number of kids in the U.S. die of accidental gunshots each year with 200,000 firearms around. That's horrible, but it seems to me like this issue is about parental negligence all around, be it with firearms, fire, water, high steps, overly thick blankets, toxic substances, or cars.

                        Is this different than that, and if so, why? How is this issue distinct from other causes of accidental child deaths which are either wholly or largely preventable?

                        And yes, this particular story is truly tragic.

                        Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

                        by mahakali overdrive on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 02:47:03 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

        •  You are kidding, right? The facts are in evidence. (0+ / 0-)

          1. A child is dead.
          2. He died of a gunshot wound
          3. The accident happened while father and son were getting into a vehicle
          4. The gun was loaded
          5. The gun was evidently NOT pointing at the ground (re: #1)

          More info...
          State police Lt. Eric Hermick said Sunday the father had secured a rifle in the back of the truck and placed his pistol on the console when the handgun went off. Hermick said police are reviewing surveillance video from the store, which helped lay out the chain of events; the video is not being released.

          "It is very clear-cut exactly what transpired here," Hermick said of what he called clearly an accident. "As he's laying it down, it discharges."

          All of MB's questions are perfectly valid (in fact those are the very questions I had when I read the story), and no doubt at the top of the investigators list.

          'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

          by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 09:22:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I wondered why the handgun was naked also. (0+ / 0-)

        I know they make holsters for them.

        "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

        by glorificus on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 07:54:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Therein lies the problem (6+ / 0-)

      There are far too many "fucking idiots" running around with easy access to weapons.  Unquestionably a very slim minority of gun owners, but enough to ensure that we see stories like this far too often...

      I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

      by Wayward Wind on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 03:15:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The same can be said of any object that is... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon, oldpunk

        dangerous when handled negligently.

        •  No, it can't be. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cany, blueness, splashy

          There is no equivilant.

          Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

          by ZenTrainer on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 11:51:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sarcasm, yes? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpunk

            I have to be sure....

          •  I have both a chainsaw (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            theatre goon

            and an ER nurse friend (who also has a chainsaw), and we'd both beg to differ with you on tools being dangerous when handled negligently. They can be positively deadly, and it happens with some sad regularity.

            We have hard hats, protective goggles, and leather/kevlar chaps to wear when bringing in the firewood. Doesn't prevent widowmakers from falling on a head or a tree crushing the life out of someone when it's brought down, but it does prevent 'accidentally' cutting your leg off or nearly so during a deep woods on-the-slope slice-up operation. Heck, I even got steel-toed mountain boots just for the task. Helpers (our not-so-little kids) know to gage the fall line and "oops" possibles, stay away from it and away from kickback arcs during slice-up "just in case."

            We take all due precautions when target shooting in the bottomland as well. This occasional pastime helps us all keep the guns in good working order and our individual knowledge/skills with those guns up to date. No one has ever been shot - accidentally or on purpose - on my land for the entire 20 years I've lived here. We plan on keeping it that way, barring any more meth-heads up to no good who just might need some convincing.

            When some creep pulls a gun on me, I may not want to run for the chainsaw (or machete), as those aren't the appropriate tools to use for the task at hand. Grandpa's shotgun [he was once the sheriff of a one-horse town in Oklahoma, the horse belonged to him] is.

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