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View Diary: Why Aren't We Talking About EXPANDING Social Security and Medicare? (273 comments)

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  •  It would help if we had (10+ / 0-)

    some plan other than appealing to a government that has ceased to listen to us.

    we've gotten so locked into one way of doing things that we make little or no progress.

    it's always:  get people we like elected, write to them/call them/meet with them/rally in front of their offices/write petitions to them, and then....government will listen to us.

    That's the formula, and it's ceased to work b/c government has figured out that if they control the options we have in elections, and make sure that almost nobody who actually represents us gets through, they don't have to listen to us.

    What do we do when they stop listening to us? We haven't figured that out, and mostly the reason for that is that we don't want to admit we've been betrayed by people we trusted.

    There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 08:39:49 AM PST

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    •  Seems like (3+ / 0-)

      Occupy is working on that problem, and having some success.

      •  Occupy stopped working on that problem (0+ / 0-)

        well before the encampments were busted up.  

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

        by Troubadour on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 12:17:32 PM PST

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        •  that's a big generalization (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chuckvw

          There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 12:28:35 PM PST

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          •  It's all a big generalization. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fisheye

            "We've been betrayed," "Democrats don't care about us," etc. etc.  We can at least be honest that we have a lot more control over a movement like Occupy than national politics, and Occupy's unforced errors and screwed up priorities have been every bit as egregious as Washington's, being so afraid of becoming mainstream - as if that would be a bad thing - that it obsessed on counterculture irrelevancies rather than tangible political change.

            In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

            by Troubadour on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 01:02:26 PM PST

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            •  Occupy related efforts (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aufklaerer, SouthernLiberalinMD

              addressing debt, foreclosure, hunger, worker solidarity, and disaster relief have been quite impressive. Occupy is more of a movement than a party, diffuse, decentralized, multi-faceted. They only get attention from the msm when pepper spray and smashed starbuck's windows are in the mix.

              As far as I know they haven't double tapped a wedding party in Afghanistan yet, or blown billions on weaponry to fight a non-existent enemy and tax cuts for the undeserving rich, or acceded to corporate-idolatrous "reforms" of various kinds. If for no other reason, they simply don't have the resources to screw up as badly as the Village.



              Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. Rosa Luxemburg

              by chuckvw on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 02:45:29 PM PST

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              •  Once they start putting people in office (0+ / 0-)

                and I mean directly - not just claiming retroactive credit whenever progressives win elections - then we'll see how the people they put in compare to the status quo.  Until then, they haven't even gotten to that point, so it's silly to compare - especially to venerate them for tangible achievements that are miniscule fractions of the people helped by the Obama administration while treating the latter like some kind of mess of dubious people.

                In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

                by Troubadour on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 04:16:29 PM PST

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                •  And just upthreads ago, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  chuckvw

                  you were knocking a poster for not being involved enough.......

                  The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

                  by dfarrah on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 08:37:08 PM PST

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                •  that's just it (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  chuckvw

                  we can't fix things by putting people into office unless we have some idea how to break the control the ultra-wealthy have over Congress.

                  I'm not saying I have the answer in my back pocket, but I know that just getting people elected over and over again ain't gonna do it. If that were going to work, it would have worked in 2006!

                  There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:15:44 AM PST

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            •  Can you give them (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SouthernLiberalinMD

              some credit for helping to change the conversation?

              The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

              by dfarrah on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 08:38:26 PM PST

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              •  I think Troubadour's mad at them (0+ / 0-)

                and I can sure understand being frustrated, as someone who worked with occupy. but it's also crucial to be careful when you generalize. a dispersed, decentralized movement like this is very different in different places. It has a few things in common everywhere, but you can't just make blanket statements like "Occupy stopped working on the problem of the breakdown of democracy before the encampments came down." as a statement of feeling: bitterness, anger, frustration, disappointment--I get that statement; as a statement of fact, it's not accurate.

                There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:18:52 AM PST

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        •  not saying you're wrong in all cases though (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chuckvw

          There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 12:29:36 PM PST

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    •  Well said (0+ / 0-)



      Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. Rosa Luxemburg

      by chuckvw on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 12:02:47 PM PST

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      •  thanks. I wish I had the answer in my back pocket! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw

        maybe some of us should get together and work on that.

        There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 12:30:26 PM PST

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        •  Maybe so (0+ / 0-)



          Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. Rosa Luxemburg

          by chuckvw on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 12:35:30 PM PST

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        •  more people speaking out (3+ / 0-)

          about Dems would be good.  When was the last time MOT was on the Ed Show?  Why is Maddow not taking on the Dems?  We should be pressuring her to do so.

          Even Sen Sanders is not saying what we want (although he is often better than others).

          As long as Democrats feel they are not in the firing line, they will drift towards Republicans.

          We have a corrupt system and we need more than Jon Stewart highlighting this.

          Blake: I am an enemy of the Federation but it is corrupt and oppressive. I will destroy it if I can

          by GideonAB on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 01:42:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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