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View Diary: Why Aren't We Talking About EXPANDING Social Security and Medicare? (273 comments)

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  •  It's all a big generalization. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fisheye

    "We've been betrayed," "Democrats don't care about us," etc. etc.  We can at least be honest that we have a lot more control over a movement like Occupy than national politics, and Occupy's unforced errors and screwed up priorities have been every bit as egregious as Washington's, being so afraid of becoming mainstream - as if that would be a bad thing - that it obsessed on counterculture irrelevancies rather than tangible political change.

    In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

    by Troubadour on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 01:02:26 PM PST

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    •  Occupy related efforts (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aufklaerer, SouthernLiberalinMD

      addressing debt, foreclosure, hunger, worker solidarity, and disaster relief have been quite impressive. Occupy is more of a movement than a party, diffuse, decentralized, multi-faceted. They only get attention from the msm when pepper spray and smashed starbuck's windows are in the mix.

      As far as I know they haven't double tapped a wedding party in Afghanistan yet, or blown billions on weaponry to fight a non-existent enemy and tax cuts for the undeserving rich, or acceded to corporate-idolatrous "reforms" of various kinds. If for no other reason, they simply don't have the resources to screw up as badly as the Village.



      Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. Rosa Luxemburg

      by chuckvw on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 02:45:29 PM PST

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      •  Once they start putting people in office (0+ / 0-)

        and I mean directly - not just claiming retroactive credit whenever progressives win elections - then we'll see how the people they put in compare to the status quo.  Until then, they haven't even gotten to that point, so it's silly to compare - especially to venerate them for tangible achievements that are miniscule fractions of the people helped by the Obama administration while treating the latter like some kind of mess of dubious people.

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU!

        by Troubadour on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 04:16:29 PM PST

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        •  And just upthreads ago, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chuckvw

          you were knocking a poster for not being involved enough.......

          The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

          by dfarrah on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 08:37:08 PM PST

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        •  that's just it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chuckvw

          we can't fix things by putting people into office unless we have some idea how to break the control the ultra-wealthy have over Congress.

          I'm not saying I have the answer in my back pocket, but I know that just getting people elected over and over again ain't gonna do it. If that were going to work, it would have worked in 2006!

          There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:15:44 AM PST

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    •  Can you give them (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SouthernLiberalinMD

      some credit for helping to change the conversation?

      The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

      by dfarrah on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 08:38:26 PM PST

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      •  I think Troubadour's mad at them (0+ / 0-)

        and I can sure understand being frustrated, as someone who worked with occupy. but it's also crucial to be careful when you generalize. a dispersed, decentralized movement like this is very different in different places. It has a few things in common everywhere, but you can't just make blanket statements like "Occupy stopped working on the problem of the breakdown of democracy before the encampments came down." as a statement of feeling: bitterness, anger, frustration, disappointment--I get that statement; as a statement of fact, it's not accurate.

        There are some things that are unforgivable. Your willingness to play political games while people suffer and die is one of them--Onomastic

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:18:52 AM PST

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        •  Not to mention (0+ / 0-)

          that that is expecting a bit much from the OWS crowd--geez, these people lost their homes, their jobs....

          The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

          by dfarrah on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 04:44:59 PM PST

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