Skip to main content

View Diary: Obama, Boehner meet on fiscal mess (222 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Time will tell. No doubt various (6+ / 0-)

    people will get enraged over this, and the next rumor, and then the next, but I have no idea if this rimour will happen.  If there is a deal, by definition there will be things we do not like in it.  And I have no doubt that any deal wil be condemned as a sell out by some.  But the content of the deal matters.  

    I prefer to put an end to debt ceiling hostage taking once and for all.  If we let it become normalized, it will undermine our system of government.  Rs half one half of the legislative branch, yet use hostages to dominate outcomes.    

    I think we need the Rs to default Ameirca to end this once and for all, just as Clinton did with the government closing.  But there will be a big economic cost to that.

    Ending R control of the House is the most important thing we can do for 2014.

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:49:16 AM PST

    •  We won't like it because it will (6+ / 0-)

      SUCK FOR US.

      We're the one's getting sold out, here. Not Obama. He'll be just fine. We, the little, mooching 99%ers will get the big appendage up the out chute.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:51:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What a great crystal ball you have. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pamelabrown, ratcityreprobate, lcj98

        Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

        by TomP on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:54:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll overlook your sarcasm (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink, PhilJD, Mr Robert

          I suppose you see this going well, the prez not caving and the repubs allowed to simply go over the non-cliff?

          I'd love that but there is a little matter of Democrat behavior: which is endless compromisies and neeless caving.

          Sure we won the election - shows dems CAN win, but now we're back to actually having to consider caving over a NON-ISSUE?

          pardon my negativity about the dem batting average.

          These motherfuckers are playing games with people's lives.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:00:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  He can't see your words through the rose (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xxdr zombiexx

            tint.

          •  I don't know how it will go. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jerry056, CrissieP

            I do know this is the Democratic Party, and not the Democratic Socialist Party.  In my view, seeing the Democratic Party for what it is shows a batting aveerage that is about what I would expect.  

            You assume "caving" as if this were the Democratic Socialist Party.  I assume Democrats will be Democrats, which means some support for a welfare state in a capitaistic framework.  If the working class in America has more class consciousness, the center-left party might be more left and there might not be a reactionairy House of Representatives.

            The taxes can go up and sequester happen.  Rs likely will vote for a middle class tax cut, or we might face another recession.  The real issue is the debt ceiling, in my view.  

            I disagree with the assumption that left Democrats control both houses of the legislature and they always "cave."

            Obama is far better than Romney (thank God he won), but we still have the R House.  

            I have been very happy with Obama and the Dems negotiating posture so far.  But I also know there is not complete power on all issues for Dems.

            What if there is a UE extension?  Is that worth giving up something for?   To me it depends on what the something is, I guess.

            From January 1, 2009, through November 2010, there was no "caving" on deficit reduction.  We had a 800B stimulus.  

            In November 2010, the people elcted a R House, kicking out 70 Dem reps.  Obama negotiated in the lame duck session (while he still had Dem house and senate) to get a second stimulus, a stimulus that may wll have re-elected him.  I did not like it all at the time, but maybe it was right.  

            Then in 2011, the Rs put a gun to the nation's head with the debt ceiling and they will do it over and over.   I think that needs to end.

            So far I am okay with the negotiations and I just will not jump to conclusions based on this rumor.  Politico said no progress, so there even are conflicting rumors.

            I think it is complicated and I think Obama generally has working people's interests at heart.  Obama is about as far left as the American people have chosen to be.

            In the end, the people re-elected a Republican House.   People will pay for that decision, unfortunately.  

            The question tome is how much we can achieve in spite of that.

                 

            Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

            by TomP on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:20:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Obama can now afford to be LESS of a priss (4+ / 0-)

              and he can lean on the repubs. He's got a mandate. He's got public polling behind him.

              I am disgusted by the political gameplaying when I am scrambling to find a second job amd Obama wants to play chicken with the future rather than being the bully he can be right now.

              I find it needless and harrowing so yeah, I assume it will go for the worse so I am less sickened by it when it happens. If it doesn't happen, I'm ok anyway.

              But the batting average and historical conduct makes me really nervous.

              The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

              by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:33:32 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Looking back 4 years, and using that as a (0+ / 0-)

          predictive model, which is more likely to happen?

          Obama strongly championing the middle class and the poor, or caving in to corporate interests?

          NOW SHOWING
          Progressive Candidate Obama (now - Nov 6, 2012)
          Bipartisan Obama returns (Nov 7, 2012)

          by The Dead Man on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:56:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  There is no reason for a deal....none! We have (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PhilJD, PorridgeGun, bdop4, Mr Robert

      all the aces, kings and queens.  No reason for a deal.....no explanation will change that fact!

    •  Why do we need MORE Democrats to sell us out? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      coffejoe, Mr Robert

      They seem to be able to sell us out quite well as it is.  If I thought that they gave a tinker's dam I might agree with you but how much push back are we hearing from any of them?  Are they howling?  Nope, most are either invisible or issuing careful centrist bafflegab weasel spin.  

      Last time I saw a Senator of mine she was worrying about hockey.  

      •  Yes, no doubt in 2014 (0+ / 0-)

        Americans will vote into power the Socialist Party.  

        I'm fine if you want to build the Green party or another option, but for now, electing Dems does matter.  In people's actual lives.

        Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

        by TomP on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:23:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am not asking for more social programs (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mr Robert

          or increases in benefits.  

          All I have advocated for is the continued full support of the signature Democratic programs Social Security and Medicare.

          Polls show up to 70% of Americans agree with me.  

          If you are representative of today's Democratic Party and you consider Social Security and Medicare insupportable socialist programs then you are correct.  I am indeed in the wrong party.  But I did not leave the party.  The party left me.

    •  The very best "deal" out there (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TJ, ferg, Willa Rogers, Mr Robert

      is to go over the fucking "cliff."

      That's a "bitter pill" progressives can embrace. Yes, sequestration requires some painful cuts to social programs, but in return we get a roll-back of the Obama-Bush tax cuts and defense cuts that will otherwise be impossible to achieve.

      That's what real compromise looks like.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 10:09:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (173)
  • Baltimore (88)
  • Community (84)
  • Bernie Sanders (66)
  • Freddie Gray (60)
  • Civil Rights (58)
  • Elections (41)
  • Culture (38)
  • Hillary Clinton (36)
  • Media (36)
  • Racism (33)
  • Law (32)
  • 2016 (31)
  • Labor (27)
  • Education (26)
  • Environment (25)
  • Republicans (23)
  • Politics (23)
  • Barack Obama (22)
  • Economy (21)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site