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View Diary: Obama, Boehner meet on fiscal mess (222 comments)

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  •  Bubba will not like paying higher taxes. (0+ / 0-)

    And when his taxes go up, he's going to be angry at his R congresscritters. They will feel the heat for this.

    If you can believe crazy things called facts and reality, the polling indicates that R's will take about twice as much heat as the D's when the curb is stepped off of.

    Finally, when has this ever been tried?

    we have apparently learned nothing from 40 years of a hard line neoconservative GOP. People still really think that you can successfully threaten Republicans with their own hypocrisy.
    The last example I can dredge up is when Clinton beat the crap out of Gingrich.

    Yes, I think we can indeed threaten the R's and win on this. If they dig in their heels, another 20 or 30 of them can go spend more time with their accountants after the midterms.

    How many divisions does OWS have?

    by Diebold Hacker on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 03:25:37 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's not about who wins, politically. (0+ / 0-)

      Republican Congresspeople are going to have a hard time selling their opposition. But they don't even have to think about it until mid 2014, at the earliest, and there are lots of ways to spin it that don't sound nearly as awful to constituents as "the GOP raised taxes." Will it work? Personally, I doubt it, but what you or I think is totally immaterial. Republicans will go with it, or they'll find some other justification for continuing to stonewall. It's a central tenet in GOP ideology, it's going to take a lot to move them on this point, and just sitting back and expecting the threat of opinion polls to do the job for us is ludicrous. If that worked, we wouldn't still get the constant barrage of GOP-filled trial balloons concerning privatizing social security or Medicare. Heck, they'll probably just ignore the polls that don't agree with their preconceptions, as they did up through election night last month.

      So, yeah, maybe the Democrats "win," politically speaking. Pardon me if I don't leap for joy at that prospect. I'd rather the Democrats win elections than the Republicans, absolutely. But that's not why I vote Democratic in the first place. If the only goal is to one-up the GOP, then, yes, this is a workable strategy. But if the goal is to run the country responsibly (or attempt to as much as is possible in the face of an opposition party that has no interest in doing so), then it's wildly irresponsible. "Trying to solve the problem" trumps "blaming the other guy for not solving the problem" every time.

      We can quibble over what Obama's position in negotiations should be. There are certain things we should not be willing to trade in search of a resolution. If that means that we don't actually solve something, oh well. In that case, you wind up in the same position, but you at least made an attempt. If you can't score an actual solution, I'm fine with salvaging a political win over your opponent. But that's not what we should be aiming for.

      •  I would like to break their party. (0+ / 0-)

        This has that potential. Their party is fracturing, and in the long run, the demographics are slipping out from under them. America would be a better place if the R party was no more.

        Now, the "sensible", business arm of their party is in direct conflict with the "crazy" arm.

        So in the sense that this situation could drive an nice big wedge in there, it is all about scoring political points, and winning.

        I would gladly trade two years of national pain for a marginalized R party.

        We have the upper hand, and all we have to do is run out the clock. If we talk with Boney while that's happening, fine.

        How many divisions does OWS have?

        by Diebold Hacker on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 04:59:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Y'know, honestly, I respect that. (0+ / 0-)

          I'm just not really comfortable with it as a strategy. That's a pretty big gamble to make, and I'm not convinced that we have the right to force Americans through this kind of hardship for political goals. Even if I do agree that the country would be better off, in the end, with the (current) GOP humbled. But I can certainly see the appeal.

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