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View Diary: "We are not having a debt crisis." Krugman nails it again (81 comments)

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  •  we need more deficit spending (13+ / 0-)

    interest rates are going to remain low because the economy is still weak.

    using low interest loans that build lasting infrastructure that creates future growth is the way to go.

    that's how you grow yourself out of the debt problem.  not by tax cuts. tax cuts don't grow the economy.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:59:46 AM PST

    •  True dat^^^^^ (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OleHippieChick

      I just hope if we borrow, that we don't fall for that Adjustable Rate scam. Borrow at a fixed rate, lets see, inflation is about 2%, call it a 5% fixed rate mortgage, then print a bunch more money and let inflation rise a bit,to say, 5.1%, it's better than free money!
      (not snark)

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:15:45 AM PST

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    •  Money is made to be spent. (5+ / 0-)

      That's what it is for. Period. Just as letters are to be combined into words and writ. Money and the alphabet are both symbolic inventions. Why people who accumulate currency should be entitled to a premium for lending it out is questionable.
      In any case, what the Congress, which is tasked with managing and distributing the currency is doing is using money as a tool to promote population control. Money and the law are being abused to let representatives play petty potentate, to rule instead of serve.
      The Republican party has attracted people who believe that "to govern" means to rule the population. They don't appreciate that the efforts of public officials ought to be directed towards managing and allocating, on an equitable basis, the assets and resources of the nation.
      Compare them to a head of household who thinks his role is to make the women and children work, not be a breadwinner himself.
      Does the preferred pattern work? Only as long as the women and children consent.

      We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

      by hannah on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:20:53 AM PST

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    •  and infrastructure is still crumbling (5+ / 0-)

      Clinton and Gore were talking bout this back in the mid-90's and we still haven't gotten around to fully tackling the problem.  It's only gotten worse.  

      This is a no-brainer.

      Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

      by Betty Pinson on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:40:09 AM PST

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    •  What products are... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nextstep

      ...you planning on shipping with that infrastructure?

      That's the real question. Infrastructure is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The way you get rich is producing goods and services of value and exporting them.

      All 'growth' can only be growth in private sector goods and services. Government can help, but it's a means, not an end.

      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

      by Sparhawk on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:11:05 AM PST

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      •  are you serious? (4+ / 0-)

        we need a massive energy project in this country.

        doesn't have to be focused on bringing retail products to market.  we need bridges, roads, wind and solar farms.

        not more toys to buy.

        we need coastal redesign.  we need new technologies to handle our water issues.  

        list goes on and on.

        -You want to change the system, run for office.

        by Deep Texan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:22:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re (0+ / 0-)
          we need a massive energy project in this country
          Why? To do what? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but you don't just make energy for the sake of it, right?
          doesn't have to be focused on bringing retail products to market.  we need bridges, roads, wind and solar farms.
          Again, why? Bridges and roads for what? Wind farms for what? For fun?

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:37:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  yeah, you aren't serious (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WheninRome

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:41:51 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm very serious (0+ / 0-)

              (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
              Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

              by Sparhawk on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:43:39 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  i think you're being obtuse (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Bluehawk

                the economics of building bridges, rebuilding crumbling infrastructure, new roads and energy independence is a net plus.

                Krugman has very good analysis on this.  We can grow our way out of debt using debt.  However, that money has to be spent on things that provide more growth.  That growth then can shrink our debt.  Republicans are wrong that tax cuts do this.  They were wrong to force much of the stimulus into the tax cut mold.  It should have been bigger and less about tax cuts.

                Direct federal spending on projects that last and open even more development are the ways to create lasting future growth.

                -You want to change the system, run for office.

                by Deep Texan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:58:42 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Re (0+ / 0-)
                  the economics of building bridges, rebuilding crumbling infrastructure, new roads and energy independence is a net plus.
                  Only if you do something with them.

                  Mine or refine metal.
                  Grow food.
                  Make computer chips.
                  Design video games.
                  Produce medical supplies.
                  Reduce the cost or labor involved in any of the above.

                  What you are doing either contributes to activities such as these, or it is a worthless waste of time (or it is charity work).

                  When you say 'growth', you mean growth in things like those items. If you don't, then I have no clue what you are talking about and you'll have to rephrase.

                  (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                  Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                  by Sparhawk on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 11:15:52 AM PST

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                  •  The conclusion does not follow. (0+ / 0-)

                    Why would growth mean reducing the cost or labor of anything on your list?

                    It would not.

                    That would be increasing productivity.

                    Growth would mean producing more units.  

                    Improving infrastructure reduces the cost of moving units produced to consumers, thus enhancing profits.

                    To Goldman Sachs in according to their desires, From us in accordance with the IRS.

                    by Bluehawk on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 11:36:06 AM PST

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                  •  right. you have no clue! (0+ / 0-)

                    are not serious.

                    at best being obtuse.

                    -You want to change the system, run for office.

                    by Deep Texan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 11:53:01 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  When you say 'growth' (0+ / 0-)

                      What do you mean exactly?

                      I have no idea.

                      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                      by Sparhawk on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 11:57:46 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  take for example building solar and wind farms (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        OleHippieChick

                        the product, if you must have a product for this to make sense is energy.  the growth part comes from building the streets, homes and farms themselves.  new areas opened up to business.  maintenance of said farms and servicing of new areas.

                        or even old areas that have had their people migrate away being grown because of new roads, farms, business and related structures necessary for civilization.

                        redesigning the coast, coastal cities, water systems and wildlife preservation could be a big boon to our economy.

                        if only we could get it funded.  structures to protect us from the rising tide.  all of this could be done in ways that help reduce our dependence on oil and help combat the effects of global warming.

                        but you know all of this.  you're just being obtuse. i really don't think you are clueless.  mr. no idea.

                        -You want to change the system, run for office.

                        by Deep Texan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:05:12 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

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