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  •  I have watched the (26+ / 0-)

    news and read the threads.  I have remained silent and respectful this afternoon.  Even when one poster here posted :

    I have an idea(14+ / 6-)

    Let's make it a law to require third graders carry concealed guns to school.  That will solve the problem.  Right, fuckers?

    I grew up ten minutes from this school. I want to put a gun to the head of every fucking RKBA asshole on this site.

    I have never understood the gun fetish degenerates who jerk off onto their gun collections everyday, and I am tired of listening to people who say that gun control is a losing issue and that we should not advocate for our beliefs.  

    Here's an idea: Ban all automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons and handguns now and tightly regulate all other firearms.  I am tired of being quiet about this.

    by Winston Sm1th on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:58:31 PM CST

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Now there is this diary calling for disbanding the RKBA group, which I am proud to be member.  I support all of the Bill of Rights.  Heck, I do not even own a gun just think the government should not be able to ban them.  Of course, I am one of the best and most loyal Democrats here.

    I have always tried to follow the rules here.  I am disappointed that this site has fallen to this point.  IMHO, disbanding our group would be a mistake.

    Thanks,

    Dwayne

    Hey! glad to see you. Hope you are doing well.

    by deedogg on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:46:08 PM PST

    •  At what point is it against our values... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sk4p, Sandino

      ...to say we support something for purely technical reasons even though it kills many innocent people?  

      You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

      by Rich in PA on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:52:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I too am a member deedogg, though I seldom (17+ / 0-)

      participate in threads.

      I haven't been following much of the news today, working you know. I do have to say though that I'll go take a look at that comment you linked. Recced by 14 people, wow!

      I think that's kind of the problem in this country and with gun violence in general. People disagree next thing you know they want to shoot someone. I mean is that sick or what?

      Maybe instead of wanting ban a group on DK the diarist could start a group for people who have anger management problems, and every time someone voices the wish to shoot, or kill, or even hurt others they could self banish to that one group to discuss their problems in a mutually supportive group setting.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:58:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hey (16+ / 0-)

      I'm a member also, I don't even own a gun. I happen to believe that we never win when we take rights away. I'm a supporter of the 2nd, but also the 1st, 3rd, 4th (RIP), all of them.

      I was told today to leave the site and not to show my face. I guess I don't contribute anything here.

      BTW, this diarist TTFN'd in July after getting into it with RKBA and another poster and only came back to post this.

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:59:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  A purely horrifying comment. (8+ / 0-)

      (Not yours, the one you quoted)

      Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

      by Smoh on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:05:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is horrible (15+ / 0-)

        But, that's how bad teh hate on us is right now. I can guarantee that not one person in RKBA, the gun owners or those like me who don't own, went into that school to kill or ever would do something like that. But, we get talked to as if we did and people pay no price for doing it.

        I belong to a lot of groups, I donate when I can and do what I can to help when someone is low and needs a lift. Frankly, I'm a goddamned good person, but I feel like a pariah. I don't hate on people who disagree with me but I sure get hated on.

        "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

        by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:12:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You know, people always say that about the guys (8+ / 0-)

          that DO do that.  They're always 'nice guys, quiet', their ex girlfriends say that was 'not the person I knew', but somehow they go do it.

          For 20 odd years, the guy that did it today was 'not someone who would ever do such a thing'.  Until he did.

          And he was able to do so because it was perfectly legal for his mother to collect such an arsenal, because 200+ years ago, a bunch of guys who were really jumpy about being attacked by other hostile countries decided they needed to put in such a clause just in case they needed to raise up the same folks who had just fought the war of independence again.

          The same guys who decided to keep slavery, and didn't allow women to vote.  It took an awful lot of dead Americans to jettison slavery, and we've got an awful lot of dead Americans because of the gun thing too.

          People are fed up with 30000 dead Americans every year who didn't have to die, 5-10 year olds being mowed down, drive-bys, hearing gunfire in their neighborhoods.

          And so, when you go out to 'promote the right to keep and bear arms', you're enabling the continuation of those deaths, those maimings, those living in fear.  No matter how much you think you're a 'goddamned good person'.  

          I'm not 'hating on you', but I think on that one subject you're every bit as misguided as I think Republicans are on most subjects.

          •  Did you just compare (13+ / 0-)

            me to the guy who did this, or a slaver? The fact that I support all of the rights afforded in the Constitution makes me responsible for every gun death, right?

            FYI, I am not a member nor do I support the NRA. I support my friend Ken who feeds his family with hunting every year and has never shot a person, never would.

            I don't believe you can ban guns, I do believe that there are sensible gun controls and if you enforce them it would help. I also believe that we have something deeply wrong with our society as a whole, a rend in our psyche that allows for this kind of violence.

            Maybe it's the demonizing of groups of people, I don't know.

            "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

            by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:34:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Responsible? In part, yes. (8+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila, Dreidlgirl, richardak, sk4p, Brit, Smoh, allensl, Loge

              If we had an amendment that specifically supported something else that resulted in the tragedies that go along with gun deaths, and you were part of a group that fervently stood by it, I'd likewise consider you in part responsible for those as well.

              You can't simply say 'I support the second amendment!' and then claim only the good results, such as feeding one's family by hunting, and disclaim any responsibility for the bad parts, such as the death of Trayvon Martin or 20 schoolkids.

              Their are good consequences and bad ones to many of the things we as individuals support, and you can't just go 'No True Scotsman!' when somebody uses a right you support in a way you don't like.  Without 2A supporters, we wouldn't have the current 2A.  Without them, it would have been changed long ago.

              So yeah, you're partly responsible.  If you want to proclaim that 'demonization', go for it.  I call it 'acknowledgement'.

              •  So you want to get rid of the 2nd? (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RonV, deedogg, ancblu

                You want to ban guns? Do you think that will make for less violence? If you answer yes on all of those then we probably have nothing to say to each other.

                "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

                by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:01:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                  •  Sorry, I guess I have one more thing to say (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    deedogg, BlackSheep1, ancblu

                    I have never given money to the NRA, always voted for Dems, and only spoken of my support here and you say that makes me partly responsible. I'm guilty of a thought crime I guess. I thought this was a liberal site when I joined it 8 years ago.

                    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

                    by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:01:59 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm not sure what sort of site it is. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      richardak, Smoh

                      I leave that up to Markos.

                      What I do know is that folks on here regularly disagree with one another, and that I don't 'speak for the site'.  I speak for me.

                      I would guess, though, that a lot of users, maybe the ones you think are 'demonizing' you, don't consider RKBA a 'liberal' issue.  Politically, it's one that conservatives have 'owned' by and large.

                      And I'm willing to keep talking if you are.  If your 'we've nothing to talk about' was rhetorical, that's fine.

                      I'm not trying to 'demonize' the RKBA.  I do think they add to what I consider a public health problem.  And, no doubt, if we went through the list of everything I support, we'd no doubt be able to find one or more things I do or support that contribute to other public health problems.  Nobody's perfect, and we're all hypocritical at times.  It's the nature of being human.

                      •  I don't want to quit dialog (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        deedogg, ancblu

                        In truth I believe that talking is how we grow and learn about each other. (Late reply, I had to fix mr.u his dinner). What I reacted to was the idea that I could be responsible for this, it's outrageous.

                        My support for the 2nd stems from my belief that we have never perfected the Constitution and our country by restricting or getting rid of rights, only by maintaining and expanding. Example, I'm an alcoholic with 20yrs sobriety. I understand why Prohibition was attractive but it was a nightmare for the country.

                        I believe that like the drug laws that have followed the prohibitive mind set, gun banning would cause a ripple effect of more crime and more violence. I do think we need to actively enforce things like registration and limiting purchase to shut down black market gun sales.

                        But, ultimately that wouldn't have changed this horrible incident. There is something very sick in our society, the inequities of our health care system and wealth distribution have rotted our society at it's core. We have a bigger problem to fix, IMO.

                        "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

                        by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:27:19 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  high uintas, in another thread I asked someone (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          high uintas, ancblu, deedogg

                          if they believed that every gun owner in America is responsible, partly, for what happened today in Connecticut. The person responded that they did not believe that, and were shocked that I would ask.

                          Here I find Dr. Erich Bloodaxe, RN, claiming that, yes, every gun owner in America, and even Americans who don't own guns but do support the right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed in the Constitution, is partly to blame for the massacre at Sandy Hook School today.

                          We're not just seeing "liberals" and "Democrats" crying out to control guns or change the Constitution, but tarring people for their beliefs as guilty of a massacre.

                          That's just mindboggling, to me....

                          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                          by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:11:18 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  To me, too. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BlackSheep1, ancblu, deedogg

                            Like I said, it's like Thought Crime. Amazing....

                            "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

                            by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:50:00 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually you're misunderstanding me. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Smoh

                            I'm not blaming 'every gun owner'.  I'm blaming everyone who advocates for the current, ambiguous second amendment, which we can easily demonstrate has allowed unchecked gun violence to continue across the country for centuries.

                            Not all gun owners do advocate for the current expansionist second amendment, nor seek even to expand the ways in which it is viewed, and to make such violence even more widespread as a side effect.

                            In my mind, it's little different than advocating for 'less government regulation' on businesses, which ignores the fact that regulations are specifically enacted to keep workers safe and the environment clean.  When such regulations are ignored, circumvented, or repealed, people die, whether in garment factory fires or mine collapses.

                            Advocates such as yourself sound the same to me as do the mine owners who moan about how the government is 'anti-business' because it tries to demand safe, controlled working environments.

                          •  So we are guilty of thought crimes. Wow. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            deedogg

                            We think differently than you, and therefore our thoughts make us criminals.

                            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                            by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:46:52 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Here's a parallel that might help you understand. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sandino

                            White people benefit from 'white privilege', thanks to the inherent racism of many of our social institutions.  We don't seek to do so, we even often loudly proclaim that we don't, but we do, and those same institutions are detrimental to minorities.  People who do everything they can to maintain the status quo for those institutions are thereby partially responsible for the damage to minorities.

                            In the same fashion, gun owners benefit from the status quo in the lack of real gun control.  If they then likewise go out of their way to promote that status quo, despite knowing the cost of doing so is more deaths, then they're likewise partially responsible for placing their own desires above the lives of those who will die as unintended consequences of maintaining that status quo.

                            There's no 'thought crime' involved.

                          •  Wow. I guess I had better stop believing that (0+ / 0-)

                            the rights, experiences, or circumstances of individuals are ever more important than group notions of safety or benefit.

                            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                            by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:33:22 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  I am not suggesting we 'ban' guns. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Smoh, Sylv

                          I'm suggesting we drastically change the way in which people access them, and change the 2nd to be more specific about the access allowed.

                          In fact, in another reply I just wrote to another 2a supporter, I noted that I would even allow access to firearms to people without requiring them to even own those firearms.  To make it so if you needed one, you could check it out of a controlled 'militia armoury' for use, much as you do a library book, and return it to such a safe environment when you were done with it, so as never to worry about children finding it and playing with it, never having it stolen to be used in street shootings.

                          And we do have many problems in this country that need fixed, but our current relationship with firearms and the support for the current, ambiguous and vague second amendment is one more problem among many.

            •  bootstrapping argument (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sandino

              if you accept that there's at least legitimate debate about what the scope of the right in the second amendment is, and further, that even if there is a consensus there is still legitimate debate about which regulations might or might not infringe it, then you can't say you support "the Constitution" with a straight face.  

              If you agitate for policies that make it possible for the shooter to obtain the weapon he used, with the types of rounds he shot, then yes, you have some culpability.  The reason RKBA can go fuck itself is that instead of prompting self-examination, we either get defensive cries of victimization or else absurd claims like arm the teachers, too.

              But to the diary at hand, yes keep the group, so long as we can also have things like Anti-Choice Kos; the Voucherizing Medicare Group; and Invade Iran!

              Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

              by Loge on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:01:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  fed up w/ 30,000 dead Americans every year who DIE (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            deedogg, BlackSheep1

            then lets ban cars- There is no such thing as "accidents" IMHO. only selfish crazy A.holes in an  irresponsible, criminally negligent hurry

            Kenyan Socialism today Kenyan Socialism tomorrow Kenyan Socialism forever May his reign last 1,000 years

            by OMwordTHRUdaFOG on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:22:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Winston Smith? He had a bad moment, you know (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino

        you can't change comments after publication.

        It was more personal to him.

        He doesn't seem like a whack job.

        "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

        by glorificus on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:45:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  that type of comment happens on a regular (12+ / 0-)

        basis here....It happens in our diaries and in others where we go to dispute a point or to point out the actual facts like what current gun law really exists.......

        Now after seeing that, understand we get that and more, the most denigrating things possible get thrown at us. Every diary we get accused of promoting violence, being scared whiny men with little dicks being murderers threatening people and so on and so on.

        Once in a while one of us decides not to take it anymore and then we get labeled the bullies.  Remember we have been a formal group since DK4 was launched and an informal group long before that so when we have seen the same person throw the same insults time and time again, how long should we suck it up before replying in kind?   Not one time has an RKBAer threatened anyone here yet every day we get accused of it.....We intentionally dont TR in most cases until it is way beyond what any other interest group would deal with or be expected to deal with this was a conscious decision discussed at length and agreed to by vote of the early members, yet we get accused of it regularly......and it is mostly the same 10 or so individuals doing it....Do you think the admins would allow 1/100th of the shit attributed to us? Hell just what we have been blamed for in this diary alone?

        If a person posts misinformation we will correct it....what good would we be if we didnt?  And I am sorry but correcting blatantly false information is not ganging up or being mean...and after the 10th time we have answered the same question from the same person, we might not reply as sweetly as the first 9 times.   Quite a few people have been banned over lies and trolling rkba diaries....not many of us have, it wouldnt take a full hand to count them.....though we have lost a few great kossaks over the vitriol aimed at us......Shadan7 a published sci/fi author and highly intelligent wonderfully informative, and generally all around good person comes to mind....

        Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
        I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
        Emiliano Zapata

        by buddabelly on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:50:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  rAmen (9+ / 0-)

          I miss Shadan.

          "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

          by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:56:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Losing him was a damn shame, he is still at (7+ / 0-)

            the site for his first book, Communion of Dreams (excellent book btw, near future sci fi) and also at Ballistics by the Inch, one of the most comprehensive tests of the effect of barrel length on muzzle velocity ever done......

            Also another kossak,  GreyHawk and Shadan co-wrote a book on being a caregiver, Jim took care of his MiL through Alzheimers until her death.....I cant remember the name for the life of me but I am sure it is at the CoD site.....

            Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
            I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
            Emiliano Zapata

            by buddabelly on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:22:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  I have seen many such comments and agree (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          glorificus, john07801, Sandino

          That they have no place here.  I have also seen, over and over, perfectly reasonable comments and questions that are rudely, nastily, and arrogantly responded to by RKBA.  By and large, you often earn your your reputation for being nasty and distasteful.

          Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

          by Smoh on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:09:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  So you don't see any merit (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          glorificus, Sandino, Sylv

          in all these people contending that RBKA members frequently engage in bullying behavior, rude behavior, and/or HR abuse?  All these contentions are baseless?

          I read what you're saying here and I believe that those things probably have happened, but I think some of you guys have lost people's good will, and, yeah, they are not willing to stand up when there are legitimate wrongs happening.

          But I hope RKBA people can accept that some good will that might have been there has been lost.  I hope that you can admit that there has been some bad behavior on the part of some RBKAers.  

          There is now an us v them mentality which isn't helping anybody.

          Frankly, I think showing up in emotional diaries written on days when gun tragedies occur, every time without fail, to make comments about how current gun control is enough, or whatever, even if you're making reasonable comments, puts peoples hackles up.

          People are venting and don't want to hear even reasonable comments.

          I hope that you can see that there are things that can be done by everyone in this community to make Dkos' relationship with RKBA more productive.

          That very much includes people in the RKBA group.  

          I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

          by coquiero on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:05:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I won't doubt what you say, but painting yourself (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sk4p, john07801, Sandino

          like some kind of victim is complete fucking bullshit. You guys go to other diaries to derail and disrupt. Before the dick rule, the first comment K9000 made was to call the person a ghoul, and you all recced him. You all are aggressive and bullying.

          That doesn't mean that people haven't gotten nasty with you, but your whining about it is just so fucking hypocritical.

          "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

          by ranger995 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:10:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Apparently not. (7+ / 0-)

        It has more recs than HRs.

        Kinda wierd to think that people here on KOS, who I consider my extended family, support a fellow KOSSER shooting me in the head.

        Ok, maybe not wierd.  How about appalled.

        Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

        by lostboyjim on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:29:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  lbj, do you really think of the 600K+ as your (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          john07801

          family? That would require tons of potato salad for the the reunion next summer.

          Please stop obsessing about that one comment, I'm sure there are multiple people he'd want to take care of first.

          Do you even know him? Does he even know you?

          And I answered buddabelly as I did because I'm sick of his shit from last nite as well as today.

          "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

          by glorificus on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:47:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I just reread that. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      high uintas, VectorScalar, deedogg, CwV

      I thought it sounded familiar.  It's exactly like Markos' hate mail.

      Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

      by Smoh on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:19:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That was a terrible statement (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonga 23, emelyn

      in your linked comment.  It shouldn't have been written.

      I'm curious, though, about your support of the Constitution.

      Is it unquestioning?  Did you support it as much when a sizable segment of our population was allowed to be legally owned by others?  When slightly more than half of the nation's adults were denied the right to vote?

      I would hope, if your "best and most loyal Democrat" statement is true, your answer to those questions is "no."

      And I would agree with you.  Our Constitution was -- and is -- a flawed document.  In my view, one of its major flaws today is the second amendment. It needs to be amended. It is vague, unclear, frankly unsuited to a modern, technologically-advanced society that overwhelmingly resides in cities, and the lack of clarity (and even proper English) in its wording invites it to be pulled and contorted into a monstrosity; as our current Supreme Court recently did with its Heller decision.

      I don't think we as a nation will ever completely ban civilian ownership of guns. And while I acknowledge the challenge is great and the chances uncertain, I think we should embark on an effort to amend the Constitution to allow more effective controls to be placed on the ownership, sale, and use of firearms. Paraphrasing Bill Clinton, I would like civilian gun ownership to be safe, tightly regulated, and rare.

      •  Ernest T Bass: slavery ended (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        deedogg, ancblu

        at least legally, in this country, when Lee surrendered.

        That was about 94 years before I was born. So no, I don't support slavery. Don't support taking the right to vote away from women, either.

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:16:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Given that (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1, ancblu

          most everything he was asking me if I opposed at the time it was happening, ended before I was born-- I assumed he did not wish to really discuss anything and was ignoring.  Did I oppose slavery at the time it was legal?  Given it was over 100 years ago, how do you even answer that?

          Of course now I am glad we amended the Consitution to end slavery and broaden voting rights.  I like the amendments that allow you to vote regardless of race or sex and 18 year olds too.  But I was born in 1963, so it is mostly looking back for me.

          Hey! glad to see you. Hope you are doing well.

          by deedogg on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:03:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Then you have no problem amending the Constitution (0+ / 0-)

          Thanks.

          Then I can assume you support the concept of amending the unquestioningly flawed second amendment?

          •  I would (0+ / 0-)

            only support amending out the part about a well regulated milita in order to clarify the language that seems to confuse some people.  Other than that, I do not see the need to broaden the liberty/right any further.

            I never support moves to restrict or take away rights or liberties.

            Hey! glad to see you. Hope you are doing well.

            by deedogg on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:29:01 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Blame your own group. They do this stuff (0+ / 0-)

      all the time.

    •  that is a terrifying comment given what happened (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      deedogg

      Brand new favorite RSS feed of Daily Kos Radio Podcasts http://kagrox.libsyn.com/rss
      Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

      by We Won on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:21:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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