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View Diary: Shut Down the NRA group. (281 comments)

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  •  Easy answers: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sandino, JMcDonald, Miggles, sngmama
    Even if I accept that this is a dodge, are you willing to hear the case that the main controlling factor in gun violence might not be the gun at all?
    No.
    If you're proposing legislation with the goal of X, and you don't know what you're legislating, you stand a very good chance of writing legislation that achieves Not X.
    This is easy. Ban GUNS. All of them, for any regular citizens. If that's too ambiguous for you, ban anything designed for the express purpose of shooting a projectile with force in order to cause harm to a body with an average projectile velocity sufficient to be invisible to the average naked eye.

    -9.63, 0.00
    I am not a purity troll. I am a purity warrior.

    by nobody at all on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:23:14 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Flip side (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kestrel9000, oldpunk, fuzzyguy

      No.

      Well, at least you're honest about this issue being axiomatic for you.

      This is easy. Ban GUNS.

      Will never happen. Not in the United States.

      ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
      My Blog
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      by maxomai on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:48:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you're certainly right over our lifetimes. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber

        I do not expect a ban on guns in the US to happen at any time in the next century at least.   A change that major would take a hell of a lot of change in public opinion, against entrenched opposition.

        •  Similar to other politics (0+ / 0-)

          The anti-choice and pro-choice sides are deeply entrenched and have little common ground, because they're operating from completely different core values. What little common ground might exist becomes nearly impossible to find because the discussion becomes too heated too quickly.

          The same goes for gun rights v. gun control.

          ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
          My Blog
          My wife's woodblock prints

          by maxomai on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:36:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think they've also put on blinders (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            maxomai, fuzzyguy, Glen The Plumber

            in that all of the focus is on specific 'types' of weapons, or whether or not to give access to weapons to specific people.

            The problem is not specific guns or specific people. It's people who are, perhaps only temporarily, in a specific frame of mind having access while in that frame of mind.

            I think addressing that requires a far different approach to 'control' than we currently attempt.

            •  Hm. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fuzzyguy

              That's a thorny problem.

              Do you have anything in mind?

              ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
              My Blog
              My wife's woodblock prints

              by maxomai on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:16:41 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I've made suggestions in several comments (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Glen The Plumber

                Along the lines of actual well-regulated militia armouries and armourers with whom you would check in and check out weapons at the time of use.  The armourers would have the discretion to ask police to speak with people who appear to be acting erratically or are requesting weapon checkouts for reasons that don't jibe with their stated purpose.  A linked database would also prevent people from checking out multiple weapons at the same time, requiring you to return other checked out weapons for storage before taking out different ones.

                Accommodations could be made for multiple use on specific licensed firing ranges, and you could even check out state-owned weapons such as hunting rifles without having to purchase them yourself.

                •  So no concealed carry, no home defense? (0+ / 0-)

                  That's going to face bitter resistance indeed.

                  ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
                  My Blog
                  My wife's woodblock prints

                  by maxomai on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:52:32 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, there's always bitter resistance. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Glen The Plumber

                    But for concealed carry, I'd require a far higher standard of training and monitoring than is currently required.  Essentially, I would hold out for you'd have to actually be an active militia member who could serve as an auxiliary police officer.

                    I've suggested that home defense would have to be a single 'check out' of a weapon that would have to remain at the home, and a serious gun safe as well as other oversight.  Perhaps random checks along the lines of drug checks, such that if you aren't found to be keeping your weapon in the gun safe, or if it's missing, your 'license' is suspended for some period, 6 months or a year, say.

    •  You really only want the police and the military (0+ / 0-)

      to have access to firearms?

      By the Collision of different Sentiments, Sparks of Truth are struck out, and political Light is obtained. - Benjamin Franklin

      by oldpunk on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:03:55 AM PST

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      •  Actually, I personally don't even want the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, nobody at all

        majority of police to be using firearms or other lethal force.  I think we've seen abuse of that privilege for decades.  I'd prefer that only designated SWAT units carry firearms, but I realize that's impracticable until such time as we seriously reduce the number of poorly regulated firearms flooding the streets.

      •  Let's narrow that to "the military" and then (0+ / 0-)

        only some of them.

        Of course the cat is out of the bag now. The policy will be badly outgunned without guns. But you have to start somehow and get there someday.

        As far as I'm concerned, "give me liberty or give me death" is one of the stupidest, most ideological things ever said by anyone. That this country is commonly held to be founded on similar sentiments tells anyone everything they need to know about America.

        It is a perfect translation of "My way or the highway, and I'll damn well have a shootout with you to settle it."

        -9.63, 0.00
        I am not a purity troll. I am a purity warrior.

        by nobody at all on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:32:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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