Skip to main content

View Diary: The right to keep and bear children (115 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  IN my opinion (31+ / 0-)

    The gun fetishists as well as the corrupt gas bags that call themselves "leaders" of both parties as well as the 2nd amendment worshipers of that terrorist organization (NRA) should go to the funerals in CT.

    Do something...marinedefenders.com

    by profewalt on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:53:40 AM PST

    •  Did you know that 76% of NRA members (5+ / 0-)

      support background checks? I am no fan of the NRA, they have sunk to the depths and need to have their air supply cut off. I don't like the term "gun fetishists" it stops any meaningful conversation cold. Millions and millions of gun owners are not a problem and will never be and guess what they support sensible gun control. In fact the over whelming majority of Americans do.  We need to stop the name calling and unfair characterizations of the very people needed to start solving our problems not just with gun control but mental health care and our culture of violence in this country. It is so easy to point fingers at one group when in fact WE have ALL contributed to this mess.

      The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

      by cherie clark on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:58:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That (17+ / 0-)

        is precisely the thinking that keeps the whole gun issue in limbo. I don't know whether that is your intention or not.

        I don't like the term "gun fetishists" it stops any meaningful conversation cold.
        No - the NRA spending millions buying politicians and poisoning the well stops the conversation cold.
        We need to stop the name calling and unfair characterizations of the very people needed to start solving our problems not just with gun control but mental health care and our culture of violence in this country.
        This hoary old chestnut. Yes there is a mental health problem in this country but it is not the gun problem.
      •  Why not (18+ / 0-)

        recognize it for what it is? It is a fetish for a great number of people. It is perfectly appropriate to call them out.

        Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. - S. Stills

        by ask on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:17:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes by all means do and get no where in this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KenBee

          discussion. Let the NRA whip them up and you feed their concerns, you prove the NRA talking points. Do you want to solve the problem or be right at all costs. You may not understand why people have guns, you don't have to. You only have to respect the fact that the vast majority of them are ordinary people, good people. In fact you might want to check out a diary on the rec list, one of those gun fetishist you are so concerned about. Get to know that person, he is a good guy and wants the killings to stop too.

          The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

          by cherie clark on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:26:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  My home town (11+ / 0-)

            was host to the largest arms manufacturer in my home country. From hand guns to sophisticated guided missiles. I was a pretty decent marksman during my military service. Later, as an officer in the reserves, I was obliged to keep an automatic rifle at home. I was very happy when I could finally hand it back.

            I recognize that some people enjoy hunting. Pistols, revolvers and assault rifles are not appropriate for that purpose and with very few exceptions, I consider ownership of such weapons as part of a fetish.

            Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. - S. Stills

            by ask on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:44:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree with assault rifles that ban needs to be (6+ / 0-)

              reauthorized. I have had people tell me that they need 30 round plus clips for target practice. Really? I own guns have all my life, do target shooting as well. It is a miniscule inconvenience compared to the damage done when those clips can fall into the wrong hands.

              The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

              by cherie clark on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:51:45 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Since you personalize the issue, please allow me (8+ / 0-)

                to personalize the issue.  No one is trying to take away your guns.  Enjoy them, for what it's worth.  But the rest of us have rights as well.  

                Little children have the right to be free from fear that they will be slaughtered when they go to 1st grade on Monday.  Middle School and High school students should not have to fear that they will be slaughtered because some angry young student got guns from his parents who owned them legally.  I have a right to teach and not be afraid that some student will rush into my classroom with his assault rifle and shoot me in the face.  My daughter has the right to go to the mall without worrying that someone with a gun will start shooting into a store.  My sons have the right to attend a midnight movie without fear that someone will walk into the theater and shoot them in the back of the head.  

                But you know, we all have to suffer, because we want you to enjoy your freedom to keep your guns...

                There is no country in the world where the citizens are so well armed.  There is no country in the world (not in the throes of a civil war) where so many people have died as a result of mass shootings.  

                But hey, sometimes the tree of liberty must be refreshed by the blood of its citizens and Lord knows, we all want you to have the freedom to keep your guns....

                There is not one, let me repeat--not one mass shooting that has been thwarted or interrupted because someone in the crowd had a gun and used it on the shooter...

                But hey, by all means, your feeling of safety trumps mine every time...you need to carry your guns wherever you want to...your freedom is important...

                And oh, yes, the NRA has the right to keep on promoting fear that the world will come to an end if gun toting Americans have to give up owning a gun because, you know, the 2nd amendment is the hinge-pin of our country's freedom.  I mean, without it, where would we be?  

                Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. ~Cheris Kramarae and Paula Treichler

                by Tchrldy on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:24:41 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  We've tried being nice (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ajwagner, SadieSue

            for a long time.
            And here we are.

            A thousand Sharkeys are invading a thousand Shires every day across our country.--James Wells

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:37:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  first steps (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Karl Rover, SadieSue

            I want an assault weapons ban.  They make about as much sense for "the right to bear arms" as do nuclear weapons.  Neither should be in the hands of citizens.

            But, I agree that as much as I don't like the NRA, I would like to see any first steps to start making owning a gun a more serious issue.  Anything to slow it down.  Police officers need to go through vetting, education, and training in order to carry a gun.  They are required to learn how to secure a gun.  The mother of the gunman owned guns legally.  Did she have them secured or were they easy access for her son?  There was another shooting where the guns were stolen from a home.  Was there a better way to secure them?  Of course this will not cure everything and make guns safe (oxymoron) but right now hearing the CNN guy say that he was able to go into a store and come out 20 minutes later with a semi automatic using only a driver's license....it is just ridiculous.  Let's start with the guidelines used for police officers as our baseline.  To get a driver's license, you have to pass a test both written and in practice.  We could do something more to make gun ownership less like owning a toy and more like a huge responsibility and liability.  Maybe you have to carry insurance to cover victim's loss.  That would let insurers create hoops to make you less of a liability.  I need insurance for a car.  How is a gun less dangerous than a car?

      •  "in fact WE have ALL contributed to this mess" (17+ / 0-)

        No, we really haven't.

        Respecting the rule of law and tolerating the results of wrongheaded elections which result in unchecked gun proliferation doesn't make gun control proponents complicit.

        It makes us part of a society being victimized by a sick minority who put their gun lust ahead of human life itself.

        "We see things not as they are, but as we are." - John Milton

        by Jasonhouse on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:49:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes really we have. We have a culture of violence (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          snoopydawg

          in this country. Do you let your kids play violent video games, watch violent movies, glorify killing in song? Do you? That problem needs to be addressed as well. I have been around guns all my life, guns were plentiful in my family in society in general at least where I lived. People didn't go around shooting up schools and movie theaters, but then we hadn't gotten to gangsta rap, first person shooters, parents working multiple jobs. I would love to see for starters the assault rifle ban re authorized and then the gun show loop holes closed. I have no problem with background checks even for long guns and most gun owners I know don't either. But this problem goes much deeper than we can fix with just sensible gun laws.

          The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

          by cherie clark on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:00:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  why is it not sensible (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        devis1, profewalt, SadieSue

        To suggest banning private ownership of handguns? I keep seeing this kind of positioning over and over. Its the 'well of course I support the individual right to keep and bear arms but...'. This is the same negotiating tactic democrats used in fiscal negoiations and they were wrong to do so. This is wrong now. It is not necessary to beg for crumbs. I want a repeal on the 2nd amendment. I want to outlaw private ownership of handguns. Why can't that be a "sensible" form of gun control?

      •  True, NRA members' views are more sensible, (4+ / 0-)

        in the majority, than the NRA organization's positions and tactics. So why don't those more sensible NRA members bring the organization to heel?

        NRA members could demand change in the organization; absent such demands, those members are complicit.

        The sh*t those people [republicans] say just makes me weep for humanity! - Woody Harrelson

        by SoCalSal on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:42:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. My professional organization, APA, (9+ / 0-)

          the American Psychological Association, got hijacked by torture-enabling idiots during the Bush years. These monsters provided consultation and cover to the military that went against all ethics and research on the subject. When we rank and file found out and pushed back, we were ignored and dismissed. Finally, between agitation from within and members leaving in protest, leadership was changed.

          We had to reform our own organization, which had become morally insane, IMHO. (For the record, I left, and have now rejoined.)

          And to their credit, the American Psychiatric Association held firm on the morality, on the science.

          So, FWIW, when will the sensible and reasonable gun owners wrest control from their own moral monsters in leadership? Because that's exactly what the NRA leadership looks like from here in Sane-town, USA.

          Life is a school, love is the lesson.

          by means are the ends on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:38:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  During the past day or so, I've used both the (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rebecca, ajwagner, Val, Quicklund

        term gun fetishist as well as gun owner. I mean different things when I use the different terms. I've also used gun advocates, by which I mean the people who actually think more people, meaning people who up until now have not desired gun, should be armed, which I find the most offensive.

        A gun owner is not a gun fetishist is not a gun advocate. I'll use the word I think is most appropriate to what I am trying to say at the moment. That actually helps make the conversation clearer, I think.

      •  You know what stops conversation (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Debby, SadieSue

        Second Amendment absolutism. If you don't feel that way bully for you, you're not part of the problem. Goody goody background checks. How about the rest of the efforts the organization to which they belong spends on fighting any and all sensible gun prohibition? WE may ALL have contributed, I actually don't deny that, but not in the ways you claim. SOME of those among us are WAY more responsible for the problem than OTHERS.

      •  cherie, we all must grieve our lack of action. (0+ / 0-)

        Is it time to confront the NRA, or do we blame the mentally challenged?  Some in the media are playing into the hand of the NRA.  

      •  Please explain to me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SadieSue

        how I "contributed to this mess." And then tell me why a person who supports background checks would be a member of the NRA who has a scorch and burn policy towards any whiff of gun control. And then explain to me how "good people" are willing to let massacres continue because we call them names.

        An unsuccessful shoe bomb attack resulted in nine years of inconvenience for every flier in the country. It would be nice to think [this diabolical act] might lead to some similar inconveniences. --mrblifil

        by Debby on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 03:09:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Clarifying fetishist (4+ / 0-)

      If one needs more than a bolt action rifle or shotgun for hunting or a revolver for home defense...than the term fetish should apply to those paranoids who need an arsenal.

      Do something...marinedefenders.com

      by profewalt on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:02:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site