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View Diary: This Is What I Cannot Understand (280 comments)

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  •  Guerrilea.... (11+ / 0-)

    A total gun ban?  I fear you are dreaming.  That will never, ever happen in this country.

    An assault weapons ban interrupts the rapid fire action of a mass slaying.  Congress banned those little magnetic balls found in children's toys.  When swallowed they obstruct intestines requiring immediate surgery to remove them.

    If Congress can ban those rare occurrences, they can get it together enough to ban high magazine clips on assault weapons.  

    •  My name is Gerri Leanne, or Gerrilea for short (0+ / 0-)

      You're missing the whole point here then.

      Banning stuff will not help anyone except the Prison Industrial Complex, the Military Industrial Complex And our Corporate Overlords profits from the wars they start and the products manufactured by Prison Inmates.

      The AWB would not have stopped what happened yesterday, period.  It wasn't based on anything but looks.

      And Congress, I still believe, even after Heller, could do what you suggest, but again, it won't stop the killings or violence in our society unless we stop being an Imperialistic Nation.

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:50:24 PM PST

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    •  gerrilea is a gun enthusiast... (6+ / 0-)

      ...one might take her suggestion of a total gun ban with a grain of salt.

      Cheers.

      •  so she is (6+ / 0-)

        but it doesn't discount her comments

        I'm an enthusiast too, I guess. Learned to hunt when I was 12.  back when every 12 yr old in my part of the country hunted, and we got a high school day off for monday, the first day of deer season. I'm  in medicare now.

        I own a few guns, some historical, some nostalgic, some for defense. Haven't shot one in ten years. Don't need to, I'm already a qualified marksman. I practice my motor skills with an air pistol, for cheap fun. I "kill" old AOL CDs as targets. and I'm damn good.

        People who want to ban civilian "assault rifles" need to learn the technical details about what "semi-automatic" means (ref: her comment about "looks").

        "The AWB would not have stopped.... "

        I take your point about the "Assault weapons" ban and I sort of agree, but if you get the technical facts wrong, you will never win. If you don't understand the technical details about which you are complaining, you lose.

        I admit it is a tricky issue in this area. But I'm on your side. I don't know how to craft an "assault weapons" ban clearly either.

        But banning large capacitiy magazines - that could be done. And would help. Along with MUCH better Mental Health services - and that would help battered women, Domestic violence, child abuse, other things as well....why are we not doing this?

        This is beyond guns. Guns are just the symptom.

        Without geometry, life is pointless. And blues harmonica players suck.

        by blindcynic on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 01:08:52 AM PST

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        •  you apparently lost track of which comment.... (0+ / 0-)

          ...you were responding to.

          Perhaps your aim isn't as good as you thought it was.

          Cheers.

        •  ammo needs to be banned. the .223 round needs to (6+ / 0-)

          be banned. The AR-15 can be adapted to fire only 3 bullets as in Germany. It can be adapted for two different types of NATO ammo as well as the .223. Banning a weapon based on its apperance is ineffective. Banning magiznes, banning semiautomatic weapons based on the fact that they are semiautomatic would be more effective. If the shooter was armed with a single shot weapon the carnage would smaller.

          But the NRA had input in committees to weaken the ban. The pro gun community neutered the bill. A weapon that reloads automatically whether semi or fully automatic should be banned as a first step. Confiscation should be the second step.

          How did we enforce the seat belt mandate. By combining it with regular police work. This can be handled in the same way.

          •  Gun Confiscation, are you serious? (0+ / 0-)

            I will not support any bill that will hand the levers of our government over to the Republicans.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 08:25:34 AM PST

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            •  gun confiscation and Republicans...? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Pescadero Bill, Laconic Lib, elwior

              ...enlighten us, please.

              Cheers.

            •  Are you serious about gun violence? There was a (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              snapples, elwior, NancyK

              lot of concern about what the civil rights movement would do to the Democratic Party. In 1948 Hubert Humphrey introduced a platform position to the Democratic Convention and a number of Southern delegations walked out and formed a third party. Did that mean we should not have done civil rights least we endanger the party?

              You begin by persuasion. And debate. And it will get heated. And it will take a long time. We have faced crisis like this before many times in our country. But you must do the right thing. And take a chance. And prepare for a long process. The 27th amendment was introduced on 9/25/1789. It was ratified on 5/7/1992. Took over two hundred years to pass. Slavery did not end with the civil war. It took three amendments to end slavery. And more than 100 hundred years later we are still fighting for basic civil rights for people of color.

              We must first persuade the people that this is the right thing to do. No one is coming for anyone's guns unless the repeal is ratified. The ratification process is a part of the debate. This could take 75 years or more. But this is a fight worth fighting. As was civil rights. And women's rights. And LGBTQ rights. And the New Deal. All of which carried political risk.

              •  We're long past "persuasion", they've been (0+ / 0-)

                arming themselves for 4 yrs.  And while I agree the Civil Rights movement was effective, this isn't the 60's anymore.

                We talk gun confiscation and gun control and we will never be in power again.

                How about we actually focus on restoring our social safety nets?

                How about we actually focus on becoming a community again?

                How about we actually focus on policies that will help the most Americans?

                Free mental health services, a living wage, corporate responsibility???

                Those things will cut our violent outburst in half, easily.

                Make it unnecessary for anyone to believe they actually need a firearm?  

                Teach our children reasoned logic, teach them peace.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 11:29:26 AM PST

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                •  If all we do is react to this outrage (0+ / 0-)

                  then we'll never implement all the good ideas in the above post, because none of them would have made a difference to someone who was from a rich family.

                  My point is that whatever we do, it has to be the result of working forward from our goals, not working backward from whatever the latest madman did.

          •  Would you ban revolvers? (0+ / 0-)

            They are one shot per trigger pull, no need to work a bolt or anything like that.

            •  Well, revolvers were the first semi-automatics (0+ / 0-)

              Q.E.D.

              emphasis on "Semi"

              Semi-Automatics have created a grey-area, and I don't know what the answer is to that. For waterfowl hunting, the solution was a plug for the shotgun...and they did that to discourage artillery barrages from the marshes...

              And they (revolvers) have "magazines" that are not easy to replace with higher capacity....I'd like to see a 100 round revolver, LOL....you'd need a forklift to carry it....

              Without geometry, life is pointless. And blues harmonica players suck.

              by blindcynic on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:46:23 PM PST

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      •  No, I do not own any firearms. (0+ / 0-)

        I"m a Constitutionalist and Historian and I support the entire Bill of Rights.  

        I understand that freedom is a dangerous and dirty concept, staying free is even harder in this world today. And I still believe the most Progressive document ever written was our Constitution.

        We can still be free and safe and it can be done without us losing total control of the levers of our government by pushing policies that will not help any of us.

        We must, as Americans, help each other and that's how I define my own life today.  

        I may not be able to feed the entire world, but dammit I can give some of my food stores to the homeless vet & their children standing on the street corner!

        We need fully funded public mental health services, not the crappy-for profit outsourcing that the Republicans have pushed upon us!

        I'm truly willing to give up a bit of my privacy for these necessary reforms.  Like the ones I suggested above.

        It won't take a constitutional amendment.

        It won't take a protracted battle against the Republicans, one they would surely win with gun bans.

        It won't take an Act of God.

        Just people understanding that we have to stop the madness and return to helping each other.

        Make that the purpose of our government again!

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:48:09 AM PST

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        •  ok, g...understand and help gun control advocates. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laconic Lib, mrkvica, elwior, NancyK
          Just people understanding that we have to stop the madness and return to helping each other.
          Okay, so help. Seriously. Lotsa your fellow citizens are not interested in the continuation of your mischaracterizations of  the issues and your advocacy against them - against gun controls. Your fellow citizens want your help in proposing and implementing gun controls, rather than the obstructionism that you seem to propose over and over.

          Cheers.

          •  Not productive or worthy of conversation n/t (0+ / 0-)

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:49:22 AM PST

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          •  On second thought...when you label me as a (0+ / 0-)

            obstructionist that is stopping gun control advocates, you equate me to the Republicans.

            It's an intentional smear, thanks, flattery gets you nowhere with me! And you aren't here for constructive discussion when you play these games.

            I will fight against any measures that will empower future Republican control of the levers of our government.

            Gun control will destroy the Democratic Party for the next 100 yrs and I will not participate with your plans.

            It has already divided this nation to the point of people actually talking armed insurrection! "Obama's coming for your guns!" You're proving their meme correct!

            You do not wish to stop the slaughters if you naively take the position we will not lose total control by advocating gun control.

            WE CAN STOP THEM NOW, without bloodshed, constitutional amendments AND without dividing this nation even further!

            The gun violence is a symptom brought about by 30+ yrs of Republicanism that has destroyed our social safety nets!  

            Take responsibility for the millions you will sentence to death when they raise the age requirements for Social Security, (if they don't decommission it completely), When they raise the age for Medicare & destroy Medicaid.

            Take responsibility when they continue to cut the taxes for the most wealthy, increase their racist sentencing guidelines and then continue their unfunded wars.  WAR destroys the wealth of the masses!

            Take responsibility when more Americans fall through the cracks and become impoverished because of the Republican ideal of "free markets" that truly means their corporate sponsors are above the law and are too big to fail. Socialism for the wealthy and Capitalism for the poor!

            Take responsibility for the results your position will bring!

            NOW, if you want to call me an OBSTRUCTIONIST because I will fight you from destroying this nation even further, SOBEIT!

            /rant!

            OR we could actually talk solutions that will help those in need and stop the violence.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 10:36:01 AM PST

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            •  you seem to have started with... (0+ / 0-)

              ...mischaracterizin' again, and then, as the expression goes, you're off in the high weeds.

              So, I'm gonna take this opportunity to remind you of your own suggestion...

              ...stop the madness and return to helping each other...
              Cheers.
              •  Pot met Kettle, your mischaracterizations are the (0+ / 0-)

                point here.

                And belie my actual position when you utilize it.

                But you did know that, a tactic you've used time and again.

                Have fun.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 11:14:04 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  law enforcement, period. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grannycarol, Laconic Lib, elwior

      otherwise ban sale, possession or use.

      there is no useful purpose for an assault weapon for anyone other than law enforcement or military.

      anyone want to argue the hunting factor, what kind of sport is it when you have to use an assault weapon to kill a deer.

      there a number of activities that are already prohibited to prevent innocent people being killed, now add ass sault weapons to that list.

      anyone that argues against banning assault weapons after the carnage of children last Fri is really not even worth considering.........

      mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

      by wewantthetruth on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:45:52 AM PST

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      •  That's where we'd disagree, our police (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grannycarol, Fabiano1

        are militarized enough and they don't need a weapon that can kill hundreds of American citizens.  They kill and torture enough of us already.

        The military however, yes, I must admit they should have all the tools they need to fight any foreign invasions.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:51:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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