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View Diary: Owning guns did not protect her (41 comments)

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  •  I call your resort to technicalities, and raise... (10+ / 0-)

    you a BAR, which is a light machine gun, not an assault rifle.  Everyone's ignorant in his very own special way.  

    It is fair to call the Bushmaster an assault rifle, and I spent a long time carrying one as a work tool.  For guys who actually use these things, the ability to go full auto is just about the most useless feature on the gun.  There are almost no situations where it makes sense to move the selector over to full auto.  Aimed shots, aimed shots, aimed shots is the mantra of the shoot house...not go full auto.   You're thinking of Al Pacino in Scarface.  

    I really can't stand the way the gun guys wait for technical errors, and then pounce on the poor guy who somehow called the wrong weapon an assault rifle, or confused magazine and clip.  

    To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

    by joesig on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:39:22 PM PST

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    •  Thank you. /nt (6+ / 0-)

      Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

      by jan4insight on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:43:18 PM PST

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    •  Yes, thank you^2. nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joesig
    •  Carried a .38 revolver every day in the AF, (0+ / 0-)

      regularly also carried and daily used an M-16, fired, trained with and taught the M-60 machine gun.
      Fully automatic fire on the '16 -- and I far preferred the pistol.
      The principles remain the same:
      Good sight picture, breath control, smooth motion on the trigger.
      One round, one hit.
      Center of mass.
      Stopping power.
      Check downrange before you shoot.
      Reduce/eliminate collateral damage.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:24:38 AM PST

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      •  You taught one round, one hit...on full auto? (0+ / 0-)

        Please.  

        Your comment annoyed me because it is so damn typical of the gun crowd here, looking for minor errors to use to attack opponents as ignorant.  Your BAR comment was ignorant.

        The anti-assault rifle crowd is correctly using the Supreme Court definition for pornography--you know it when you see it.  I'm not interested in the technical definition of assault rifle, as defined by gun porn.  The Bushmaster is an assault rifle.  Period.  In my previous job, in Afghanistan, I ordered the M4s for my company--we declined the offered military M4s.  The semi-auto M4 I purchased was a far more efficient and deadly weapon than the full auto military M4.  Better barrel, piston driven, mods that made sense.  Don't tell me one was a deadly "assault rifle" while the other one was a civilian toy.  

        Guns are tools.  Don't try to confuse the issue.  

        To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

        by joesig on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:49:31 PM PST

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        •  I said I preferred the pistol for accuracy (0+ / 0-)

          and controllability. Your inference otherwise and your further accusations toward me are really good arguments that I should not expect reason or openmindedness from you.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:06:18 PM PST

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          •  M4 is far more accurate than the pistol. (0+ / 0-)

            And far more controllable.  

            I'm pretty reasonable, and pretty openminded.  And you never addressed my original comment--you accused someone of not knowing details of assault rifles, while calling a light machine gun an assault rifle.  

            Sorry if you're offended.

            To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

            by joesig on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 04:16:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  do you dispute that an assault weapon must be (0+ / 0-)

              capable of automatic fire?

              The BAR is the oldest such man-portable weapon of which I am aware.
              Ideally it's crew-served, like the M-60.

              LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:21:15 PM PST

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              •  Practically, or technically? (0+ / 0-)

                If there's a recognized technical description that has been canonized into complete acceptance.....then the definition is what that definition is.  On the practical side, there is absolutely no requirement for an assault rifle to be capable of fully automatic fire.  As proof, for years (and maybe still) the M16A2, the official assault rifle of the US Army did NOT have full auto capability--single fire and three-round burst only.  So I guess by definition no full auto is required for an assault rifle, at least as defined by the US Army.  

                And as I said in an earlier post, as a practical matter I have carried great assault rifles (M4s) that were civilianized--no full auto available, or wanted.  

                And when I carried the M-60, much earlier in my career, it was an individual weapon, not crew served.  We took pride in that, and sort of made fun of the Army's concept of the 60 as crew-served.  Of course, we were never in defense, and never static, so we had that luxury.

                To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

                by joesig on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:53:53 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  We have different experiences. In my USAF days, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  joesig

                  the M-16 would empty a 20-round magazine for a single trigger pull. The selector had three settings: safe, single, and auto. Unlike the Army contingent from Fort Polk who trained on our range, we had very few A-1s and my NCOIC worked hard to get every single one of them sent to depot for replacement with non-forward-assist weapons.

                  My favorite variant of the Colt-made gas-operated 5.56 automatic rifle was the GAU-5 carbine, because I could actually tailor its stock to fit me, giving me what I felt to be better control of the firearm. I've since been informed that such stocks can now be fitted to "standard" AR-15/M-16 weapons.

                  Our M-60s were supposed to have 3 people per, but some AFSCs had to qualify on it with pair / single operators (you're supposed to stop at a 4-round burst with it lest you melt the barrel); in actual use we were supposed to be doing airbase ground defense with it, so it would be mounted on a vehicle or in a static position.  In my experience it really did qualify as a "machine gun" ... but it can be fired, by a sufficiently trained person, in much the same way a rifle is.

                  Thank you for your service, and for sharing your experiences with me.

                  LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                  by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:03:17 PM PST

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                  •  I think it's a difficult time to talk about guns. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BlackSheep1

                    I stayed almost entirely out of the gun/RKBA talk today; feelings are too raw.  

                    And thank you for your service, although I always feel sort of odd when someone says that to me.  I had a great time, always, and it never felt to me I was doing anything other than exactly what I wanted to be doing.  

                    To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

                    by joesig on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:47:11 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •   Up until I trashed my knees, I felt (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      joesig

                      the same way --- at least most of the time. I'm pretty sure Strategic Air Command didn't expect to provide me with anything like the adventures they did...

                      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                      by BlackSheep1 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 09:49:47 AM PST

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