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View Diary: President Obama gives great speeches and, apparently, great hugs (80 comments)

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  •  If you heard his entire talk, he spoke about (8+ / 0-)

    free agency etc. (he is obviously Mormon evident not only in this context but others) and he made an astounding statement that I can't quite remember exactly about how the shooter did what his free agency led him to do.

    I was in the car heading to the vet and had to pull over I was crying so hard in listening to him, but that statement is so difficult to accept. I must have missed the lesson on free agency and murder. I cannot even put that in perspective. Of any kind.

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 08:06:33 PM PST

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    •  Free agency is not unique to Mormons, and (8+ / 0-)

      believing in some measure of free agency is about the only solution to the problem of evil that doesn't indict God.



      Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

      by Wee Mama on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 08:49:54 PM PST

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      •  True, however, all the other buzzwords were there (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fury, Wee Mama, Larsstephens

        too. I later heard he had recently moved to CT from UT. But free agency and murder from a troubled youth? VERY hard to swallow for me.

        202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

        by cany on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:19:55 PM PST

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        •  I don't know how any human being can separate (7+ / 0-)

          the threads of choice and compulsion, in the drivenness, fear, despair, delusion, and blindness of this young man who killed his mother, childen and teachers, and himself.

          Free choice is an important concept to me too, but I think it'll become increasingly clear that mental illness was involved in this case, and mental illness can cloud freedom of choice beyond the point where the term has any meaning.

          I read somewhere recently -- I need to find the reference -- that countries with low levels of violent assaults share the trait of having mental health treatment broadly available.  We don't.  If we gave help to those who want it, we could restore many of those who do these things to enough clarity and freedom that they wouldn't do it.

          Not all. But many.  Many fewer lives lost.

          --------------------- “These are troubling times. Corporation are treated like people. People are treated like things. …And if we ever needed to vote, we sure do need to vote now.” -- Rev. Dr. William J. Barber

          by Fiona West on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 10:15:03 PM PST

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        •  The only sense that "free will" makes to me is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Larsstephens

          that at any time we all of us have some measure of choice. Most of the time, for most of us, there is a wedge of choices that splays about 45° or 90°. At life changing moments, that range may widen out to 180° or even wider. For those of us suffering from mental or physical illness or other form of suffering, we may have only 2° or 5° of freedom (call the doctor? take the pill?), but some measure, large or narrow, is there.



          Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

          by Wee Mama on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:49:22 AM PST

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    •  He was also a little bit creepy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens

      He broke out into a wide smile more than once during his press conference. I feel sadness for him and his family's loss  beyond words, but there was something about him that just rubbed me the wrong way.

      •  For some people, that's a stress reaction. (19+ / 0-)

        Some people laugh, often uncontrollably. Some people get facial twitches or tics. Some people vomit. Some faint.  Some people grin (or grimace). Some become numb, almost catatonic. Some become numb and very businesslike, like this is all happening to someone else. There is no normal way to react.

        It's all pretty much beyond their control. They're functioning the best they can; and their bodies are struggling to be effective with stress hormones, lack of sleep, usually lack of food, etc  as well.

        It's best not to judge people going through extraordinary stress like this from overt behaviors that seem odd or "creepy" to you. Unless you've been through a severe sudden overwhelming crisis, you never know how you yourself might be under the same conditions.

        And even if you have, every loss you experience gets re-experienced with new losses, so the effect is compounded. Humans are not really wired for this sort of stuff. At least, we're not wired to go through it smoothly.

        © grover


        So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

        by grover on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 12:29:05 AM PST

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        •  What a kind and compassionate (4+ / 0-)

          response, Grover, and a reminder to all of us to judge not.

          Being the single intellectual in a village of 1,100 souls ain't much fun, especially when 1,099 of those don't think you're all that smart.--Lucy Marsden

          by Miniaussiefan on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:22:25 AM PST

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        •  very true. When my mother passed, I was all (3+ / 0-)

          business from the time I was told she was gone until the day we had her service. The following weeks, I was inconsolable. I didn't cry until after all the formal arrangements had been performed. I even held her hands as her nail technician painted her nails for the viewing. Never cried. But the following weeks, I'd breakdown at random times throughout the day. It was strange because during those first few days, I was proud of myself for handling it so well only to find out that I was just holding it together for my father. Once the obligations were finished, I just had a breakdown. And now it's been 6 years but there are still days when I will just start crying thinking about her but I think that goes with any loss.

          It is just a matter of how you personally react to stress.  

          Earth: Mostly harmless ~ The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (revised entry)

          by yawnimawke on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:41:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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