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View Diary: CalSTRS Hits Gun Manufacturers where it hurts: The Pocket Book (59 comments)

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  •  yes and no (0+ / 0-)

    Yes, you are correct. I didnt read the quoted article.

    But, no, that doesn't make your point. You basically argued that Bushmaster's Operation would be hampered by the sale.  

    But since they are selling off the whole Freedom Group, wich is an independently operating company conglomerate, I don't think this is going to happen. They sell the whole company.

    Worst case outcome: they sell it to a competitor, who finds "synergy reserves", fires a bunch of people or maybe even closes production lines but still maintains the same output of weapons.

    So:
    - Best possible outcome: nothing changes
    - Worst possible oucome: many American workers loose their jobs and livelihoods

    Excellent union action.

    ______
    "Und wer nicht tanzen will am Schluss - weiß noch nicht dass er tanzen muss", Rammstein, "Amerika"

    by cris0000 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:02:25 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  So your point is.. (6+ / 0-)

      That people should stay invested in things they don't believe in because, basically, it doesn't matter or jobs would be lost.

      Let's cover your thoughts:

      "Best Possible Outcome: Nothing Happens"

      No.  Best possible outcome: a few million teachers go to sleep to night knowing that their retirement fund isn't build on the back of a semi-auto gun maker.

      "Worst possible outcome: Americans lose jobs and livelihoods"

      I hate to break this to you, but any change in the gun industry that would reduce sales will have this result.   You can't work toward reducing an industry without realizing some people will lose jobs.  They are just losing jobs in an industry you don't want.

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:21:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  they slept excellently with that thought (0+ / 0-)

        for quite some time.

        The Freedom Group is a major arm manufacturer, not just Bushmaster. It has been owned by Cerebus for at least six years now. If they didn't like that they should not have invested with them in the first place.

        ______
        "Und wer nicht tanzen will am Schluss - weiß noch nicht dass er tanzen muss", Rammstein, "Amerika"

        by cris0000 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:29:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Point? (3+ / 0-)

          I don't get your point.   So, they invested for a long time, and now, they are backing out.   You're contending the fact they were a long time backer means they should just throw up their hands and keep backing them, even once they realize they should not be because of serious differences.

          This argument makes absolutely no sense

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

          by Chris Reeves on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:04:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am disputing your point (0+ / 0-)

            that this decision helps retired teachers to sleep better.

            Their "moral earnestness" is phony and their claim of differences is insincere.  Just because it is a good argument does not mean they can make it withou exposing themselves to charges of bigotry.

            Those "differences" have been there for years now, the facts of their investment have not changed a bit.

            ______
            "Und wer nicht tanzen will am Schluss - weiß noch nicht dass er tanzen muss", Rammstein, "Amerika"

            by cris0000 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:23:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bigotry? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BYw, Killer of Sacred Cows

              Bigoted against.. what exactly?

              Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

              by Chris Reeves on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:24:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh well.... (0+ / 0-)

                Wikipedia defines Bigotry as the state of mind of a bigot, and the OED defines a bigot as a person who is bigoted.

                This seems to be, at least to some extent, a case of walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.  They can't define it very well - but they know it when they see it.

                They all, though, focus the term on resentment, hate and prejudice.

                My personal definition used to be resentment/hatred under the guise of morality. A Bigot is not a hater alone, but one who tries to pass himself off as virtuous in his resentment.

                Therefore the defining quality of a bigot is not only that resentment of others, but the inconsistency between his public moral persona and his unreasonable resenting self.

                You might argue, though, that while we have both resentment and public bousts of morality here, they don't fit that pattern very well.

                So, yes, it might not be a case of textbook bigotry but just vanilla pharisaic phoniness, mixed with standard leftwing resentment of arms and the military. Which doesn't make it any better.

                ______
                "Und wer nicht tanzen will am Schluss - weiß noch nicht dass er tanzen muss", Rammstein, "Amerika"

                by cris0000 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:53:29 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I doubt very many teachers really know where (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Killer of Sacred Cows

                  their pension money goes, as many coworkers in my district were shocked when they heard about Enron related losses. So, it seems like a stretch to assume enough teachers even know who Cerberus is, or enough about them to debate with themselves over how well to sleep over it.

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