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View Diary: Krugman On The Proposed Deal (341 comments)

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  •  I'm mostly with you, but you have to admit that (13+ / 0-)

    this appears to be unfolding exactly how every Obama critic said it would.  I'm not a fan of the people that mope around this site 24/7 talking shit about Obama and Democrats, but sometimes they are right.  Cynicism is an affliction rarely cured by reality.

    •  No (11+ / 0-)

      many of the critics I saw were saying he would cave on medicare, cave on taxes.  He hasn't.

      Does that make this a good deal, I'm with Krugman.  My main problem is that the deal seems to trade short term things that can be changed easily with a long terms change that cannot.  That sticks in my craw and bothers me.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:25:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Stay tuned. (4+ / 0-)

        "ObamaAusterity" has only just begun.

        Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

        by maxschell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:29:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you Empty Vessel, well said. n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Empty Vessel
      • far... (0+ / 0-)

        So far, he's caved on taxes ("Oh, did I say for incomes above $250k? I meant for incomes above $400k!") and on Social Security. And Boehner has rejected that deal.

        That's two of the three things that Obama critics were expecting. That's a pretty good batting average so far, and we're just getting into the real negotiations.

        For the record, I, as an Obama critic, except to see an 11th-hour deal struck without the Medicare changes (those will probably happen, but they'll be saved for the next iteration of fiscal brinksmanship of one kind or another, after the public has had time to get used to the idea) but with tax cuts for everyone except people over $1m (or, alternately, the threshold being set to $400k but the top tax rates being set to perhaps 1% lower than they are currently, instead of Clinton levels), no increase to the taxes on capital gains or dividends, the chained CPI, and at least one gratuitous stab that nobody has mentioned yet that will have to be thrown in to sweeten the deal.

        I would be delighted to be proven wrong. Please. Someone help. I've written (one email and one letter each) to my Senators, my Congresswoman (who is one of the ones already sticking up against this crap), the President, and John Boehner (thanking him for his efforts in trying to make poor senior citizens more miserable than they are, and their families poorer as well). I am not sure what else I can do right now.

        •  So any compromise is caving? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jerry056, JohnB47

          If we hold Republicans to the same standard (and their base will, certainly) then no politician will ever be able to govern.  Ever.  

          I'm all right with "caving" as long as the net balance makes sense.  I'm not sure if it does here.  But--in principal--we do need our Government to govern.

          •  Not always, certainly (0+ / 0-)

            But Obama has been making $250k a year a hill to die on for the last year. Over and over, he's repeated that that's what he wants. Are you now saying that backing away from the talking point that he has repeated more often than any other in the last year is not caving?

            As for Social Security, let me be clear: any cut to the incomes of poor seniors is caving, period. Our pension system in the US is laughably miserly compared to all other developed nations, and now we have established that the right thing to do with it is to make it worse. That Obama think that making it worse is a good idea. So we have the Republicans (make the poor poorer a LOT RIGHT NOW!) vs the Democrats (make the poor poorer slowly, over time!). If the Democrats aren't willing to make poor seniors' lives better, rather than making them worse more slowly, then yes, I'd call that caving.

            Now, the Republicans have finally forced Obama into his favorite position again: 'compromising with myself'. And his first real public offer to the Republicans is to compromise on one of his major talking points, and cause significant damage to the elderly. And, despite his insistence that the Republicans be the ones to propose their side of the negotiations, this offer came from his mouth, which means that the Republicans can use to to damage Democrats, if anything like it gets passed.

            So, let's see: not enough tax increase on the rich for them to even notice. Benefit cuts on the elderly. And a talking point that Republicans can use to paint Democrats as granny-starvers for the next decade. And that's the Democratic offer to the Republicans.

            And you're going to stand there and tell me you don't think that's caving? Dude, that's not caving, that fucking speleology.

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