Skip to main content

View Diary: Krugman On The Proposed Deal (341 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I'm sorry (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, blueoregon, kefauver

    but if our comments on this site are going to go into revolution and violence (there's no way to "tear down" the system without it) then I'll use up all my HR's to stop that.

    "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

    by artmartin on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:38:45 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  no uprate from me. /nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      artmartin

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:48:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  never were the words you used used by me (6+ / 0-)

      therefore it is you who needs the HR by your own criterea

      An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

      by don mikulecky on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:52:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Against site rules to HR someone back... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ColoTim, blueoregon, artmartin

        You could get in trouble for that.

        Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
        I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
        —Spike Milligan

        by polecat on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:55:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I did not HR him back I did it according (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueoasis

          to his criterea for what he posted and I did not

          An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

          by don mikulecky on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:03:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  splitting frog hairs. /nt (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            longtimelurker

            Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
            I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
            —Spike Milligan

            by polecat on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:01:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  h.r. seems to be "club" of choice? (0+ / 0-)

              just call the comment out for christ sake. some people honestly believe what they post, noone is forced to run with anything which could be used against Kos.
              there always seem to occur misunderstanding of some sort by those who use this tool.
              The post could also be ignored? meh.

              The Democrats now own everything from the center right to the far left. the republicans and the filthy robberbarons occupy the extreme right fringe.

              by longtimelurker on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 07:16:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Got my first HR from a comment that didn't (0+ / 0-)

                deserve one.  (Armando, actually!) P*ssed me off back then.  Now, not so much.

                Sometimes it's easier to let someone stand out there by themselves having done something stupid.  (e.g. the placer of the HR)

                I was merely trying to tell Don how his comment could be misperceived.  If you haven't noticed, Don is quite prolific and I'm going to go diving back through his stuff -- there is some good stuff there.

                Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
                I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
                —Spike Milligan

                by polecat on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:19:19 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  don - artmartin is baiting you (5+ / 0-)

        artmartin has in at least two comments so far in this thread attacked commenters rather than engage in real debate.

        Don't fall for it - just ignore her. You're better than that.

        Also, pull back your HR, because she's probably the kind of little tattle-tail that will try to use it against you.

        Thanks, BL

      •  * (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jplanner, artmartin, kefauver, claytonben

        Kossack: "You have a fix?"

        you: "Have had for a long time.
        Do not support the system. Bring it down"

        How, is that not advocating?

        "Let us never forget that doing the impossible is the history of this nation....It's how we are as Americans...It's how this country was built"- Michelle Obama

        by blueoregon on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:22:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you *honestly* believe that violence is (7+ / 0-)

          the only way to bring down a corrupt system?

          "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

          by JesseCW on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:32:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  ah, well, he stated he wasn't advocating violence (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kefauver

            which is why i took away my hr. now, get off my back, if you don't mind.

            "Let us never forget that doing the impossible is the history of this nation....It's how we are as Americans...It's how this country was built"- Michelle Obama

            by blueoregon on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:49:39 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  First of all I don't accept the notion (3+ / 0-)

            that the system is corrupt.  Individuals within it are and that does not include the President and most members of the Democratic Party which seems to be the people we're supposed to be behind here.  There are things that need changing but "bring it down" means to me erasing it all and starting over.  In my mind there is no way to erase it all without violence not in the time frames you all are insisting on.  I am all in favor of non-violent methods of change but history shows us those are slow and methodical and not based on some single issue.  Not a one of them includes tuning out and turning against the more ethical of the ruling powers that be.  This initial diary showed nuance, opened reasonable discussion but right away the "sky is falling bunch" chimed in followed closely by the "fuck it all.  Let's throw all the bums out" crowd.  Well many of us are tired as hell of these tactics and keep seeing the same names pop up all the time when they begin.  

            Let's get back to point of this diary but I'm not sitting by idly if it gets taken over by talk of abandoning the Democratic Party and our President.  If that gets me banned or HR'd so be it.

            "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

            by artmartin on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:58:27 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You don't believe the system is corrupt? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              don mikulecky, adigal, Mr Robert

              I got that right?

              You have no credibility.

              "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

              by JesseCW on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:00:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm sorry but that's too simplistic (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                chrismorgan

                There are too many parts of the "system" that still work, that serve the citizens of this country, that make us as humans stronger, enhance our lives, give us food, water, community, the arts, education, defense.  There are still within the "system" those that sacrifice for the common good, truly care about making a better world, face the crazies out there putting themselves into the spotlight.  

                I concur completely that there are parts of the "system" that need reform, that there's too much money in politics, some very evil men in positions of power but those parts thrive in societies where people aren't involved tightly with the very basics of that day to day governance and not by screaming and carrying on.  The change comes by grinding day to day work to propel the most talented up into the representative slots.  We're on this site to work WITHIN your hated "system", to make it more Democratic and progressive not to tear it down.

                I rest my case by what you just posted.  

                "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

                by artmartin on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:30:31 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  If you read my many diaries here (9+ / 0-)

      I consistantly talk about my strong belief in nonviolence.  When I say "tear down the system"  I have made it clear that I think the two party system is the problem.  Where do you get your delusions?  

      An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

      by don mikulecky on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:54:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tearing is not "non violence". You should use (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        artmartin, FG, blueoregon, OIL GUY

        other words like reform, change, or whole phrases like "we need to break the stalemate in Washington".  I agreed with artmartin that advocating "tear down the system" is advocating overthrowing the system by violent, not non-violent means.  I also agree with polecat that retaliatory HR's are against site policy.

        Don't forget the purpose of this site is to elect Democrats, and advocating for non-Democrats, (no, you didn't specifically type that, but I can't see any way your words don't mean that) is also against the Blog's rules.

      •  And I will note your original post above says (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        artmartin, blueoregon, OIL GUY

        "bring it down".  It's your clarifying remark here that says "tear down".  Even "bring it down" is advocating against Democrats.  

        I do despair about the Democratic party being able to achieve real change; I'm on this site to support Democrats.  If I ever feel differently, those posts would be on another site.

      •  Sorry pal (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoregon, OIL GUY

        but a person shouldn't have to read back through your history to find out the meaning of your words.  "Tear down the system" is pretty clear in a diary critical of the President and a political deal on the table.  Non-violent terms are things like "rebuild the system", "work towards getting the money out of politics", "urge Obama to change his mind".  Whatever the hell your words meant to you their effect is that it causes people to give up, tune out, disengage at a time when we need all the support we can get.  

        "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

        by artmartin on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:15:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  dictionary definition (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, blueoasis, JayRaye
          To divide or disrupt: was torn between opposing choices; a country that was torn by strife.

          An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

          by don mikulecky on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:21:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  and I apologize (0+ / 0-)

          for substituting "tear it down" for "bring it down".  To me they mean exactly the same thing and the justification for the HR is still there in my opinion.  

          "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

          by artmartin on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:39:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your inability to use language is noted (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jabney, adigal

            As is your propensity for violence in everything you see.  I think we know quite a bit about you now.  Sad sad sad.

            An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

            by don mikulecky on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:47:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Can I give you a HR for diary hijacking? (0+ / 0-)

          I never give them, but my finger is itching to give you one. You totally hijacked this thread.

          My dog is a member of Dogs Against Romney: He rides inside.

          by adigal on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:16:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  (people mbe can't remember other diaries) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        artmartin

        to know how you meant "tear down". That phrase struck me as well. (I did not rate). Without context it may seem violent to some/many. I wouldn't have so quick a trigger though myself

        •  again I said "bring" not "tear" (0+ / 0-)

          the substitution was made by the attacker

          An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

          by don mikulecky on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:48:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  get it. Bring down sounds rash (0+ / 0-)

            Tear is less than bring but have to tell you Bring down seems rash well to my ears, however. You know, as in "bring downn the government"

            I remember reading your original post and having a surprised reaction...not to HR but "woah that's a bit far".
            not knowing you or your previous diaries. You did not deserve to be 'attacked" or HR'd in my mind.

            I don't see an attack post so maybe it was removed.

            Regardless of all it sucks to feel attacked and misunderstood especially here on Kos. Myself sometimes I come here for community and solace. I've felt that way here at times unless I choose my wording Very carefully if it's a controversial topic especially.

            peace

      •  ps I said "bring down" the attacker said "tear" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Agathena

        get that straight please

        An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

        by don mikulecky on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:56:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I dunno (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      don mikulecky, adigal

      the Repubs have brought this country close enough to crashing down already.

      It's been a hundred years, isn't it time we stopped blaming Captain Smith for sinking the Titanic?

      by happymisanthropy on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:11:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Uprated to offset bullshit retaliatory HR. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      don mikulecky

      Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

      by OIL GUY on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:29:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Right. The Raj wasn't ended non-violently. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      don mikulecky, blueoasis

      It never happened.

      You're justifying your HR based on your belief that violence is the only way to bring about massive systemic change.

      And you don't even get how sick that is.

      "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

      by JesseCW on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:31:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  (artmartin comment seems fine to me why -1?) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      artmartin
    •  You are assuming - there are lots of ways to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Agathena

      bring the system down. The system is the rigged congressional districts. You are all a-fainting, making assumptions about revolution and violence, but I didn't get that from the comment at all.

      Such hysteria chases me from here quite frequently.

      My dog is a member of Dogs Against Romney: He rides inside.

      by adigal on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:11:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "bring it down" it was a metaphor. (0+ / 0-)

      ❧To thine ownself be true

      by Agathena on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 03:43:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  No violence was even hinted at (0+ / 0-)

      You are obviously ignorant of the general strike, noncooperation tactics, etc.

      perhaps you are the one who should be HR'd

      WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Dec: Life so cheap; property so sacred.

      by JayRaye on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:56:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Since you are against revolution you (0+ / 0-)

      should move out of the United States of America because it was born from revolution.

      WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Dec: Life so cheap; property so sacred.

      by JayRaye on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:05:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site