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View Diary: Stop Blaming Newtown Tragedy On Mental Illness (301 comments)

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  •  not sure that's constitutional. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RonV, VectorScalar

    if its a burden on the right, it won't fly.

    OTOH, we probably can keep guns from the mentally ill.  while some people, like the diarist, seem to feel strongly that the.mentally ill should be able to own guns on the same terms as anyone else, I think therea enough support from the citizenry to restrict their ability to own guns.

    •  What? that her policy required safe storage of her (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DefendOurConstitution

      guns while she was unconscious?

    •  deliberate misinterpretation of the diarist`s (10+ / 0-)

      point Doesn`t move the discussion forward. At no point did the diarist suggest that mentally ill people ought to have access to guns. The argument is that the focus should be on access to guns. The NRA and their supporters would rather distract the conversation from the issue of the availability of guns to demonize people with mental illness. Anything to take the discussion off guns.

      If I had my way, I would repeal the 2nd Amendment. Since I can't have my way, I support a ban on all assault weapons. Now!

      by Tchrldy on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 04:49:30 AM PST

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    •  Which Constitution? (9+ / 0-)

      How does a mandatory gun lock prevent the good supply of weapons to a civilian militia necessary to protecting the liberty of the state? Of course it doesn't.

      The actual Constitutional protection in the 2nd Amendment is very narrow. Indeed, vanishingly narrow, and in fact based on a fallacy. A well armed militia is now proven by centuries to threaten the liberty of a free state more than protect it.

      Yes, most of the Supreme Court and the Congress, and probably the president all would say otherwise. But they're wrong. The 2nd Amendment's perversion into absolute right to unencumbered gun access is as wrong as many other perversion of the Constitution (eg. tax-free churches). But it's now compellingly urgent to fix. The willful misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment is now obviously a suicide pact.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 05:06:52 AM PST

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    •  You misrepresent what I wrote (11+ / 0-)

      Quite glaringly

      Hopefully others won't fall for this spin

      The Fall of the House of Murdoch -with Eric Lewis and all the latest Leveson evidence out now!

      by Brit on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 05:08:23 AM PST

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      •  It seems to me people are conflating & confusing (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poligirl, Oldestsonofasailor, Brit

        symptoms with causes.

        Obsessive playing of any game is not a good thing, whether the game at hand is violent or farmville. That's because obsessive behavior is unhealthy.

        A tiny minority of mentally ill people will harm others. Doesn't mean we don't need to address mental illness on a broader level. I do think Breivik is mentally ill or unstable or suffering from some disorder and I don't think it's useful to say someone who is mentally ill can't plan and execute a shooting spree.  Something was wrong with Lanza, that's pretty clear.

        It strikes me that the official definitions of mental illness work to deny and lead other to fail diagnosing mental illness (there's an odd parallel in that the NRA has messed with the definition of assault weapons such that the Bushmaster isn't classified as one even though it is a rapid fire weapon).

        But being able to easily buy and resell a rapid fire or legally classified assault weapon and ammunition and having them in your home seems ridiculous. Lanza's mother would not have had them if they were illegal.

        As I said above, I'm for very strict gun control, but don't think we can get that passed in the U.S. Right now, I'd settled for expanded definition of what constitutes an assault weapon and the ammunition that goes with that, a ban on these weapons for sale or resale, and a massive government buy back of existing assault weapons that fall under new definitions.  

        Proactive and retroactive measures. It did some good in Australia.

        BagNewsNotes: Visual Politics, Media Image Analysis

        by ksh01 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 06:13:13 AM PST

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        •  this is right on: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          salamanderempress, LaEscapee
          A tiny minority of mentally ill people will harm others. Doesn't mean we don't need to address mental illness on a broader level. I do think Breivik is mentally ill or unstable or suffering from some disorder and I don't think it's useful to say someone who is mentally ill can't plan and execute a shooting spree.
          the can plan and execute complicated plans. and many of the mentally ill folks are also extremely smart and can be very capable people with proper treatment.

          to dismiss someone who is mentally ill as incapable of  doing something like Columbine or Sandy Hook or Virginia Tech is misguided big time. and that can be a dangerous assumption too.

          A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

          by poligirl on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 09:14:21 AM PST

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    •  Huh? There can be no burdens on gun rights? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kamakhya, Brit

      You've got to be kidding.  Even the right wingers on the Supreme Court didn't go that far when they suddenly decided that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to keep and bear arms.

      Even First Amendment rights can be burdened in certain circumstances, and we sure as hell know that things like the right to vote and the right to reproductive choice can be burdened -- quite substantially, in fact.  The right to own a gun is no different.

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 09:34:37 AM PST

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