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View Diary: Are we watching a re-run of Caver-in-Chief? (116 comments)

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  •  I thought the President cured his bipartisan (24+ / 0-)

    addiction...

    apparently he relapsed...and we are going to pay...

    good seeing you iceberg...

    "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

    by justmy2 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 12:24:01 PM PST

    •  Just keepin it honest... (16+ / 0-)

      his approval ratings sank running after bi-partisanship...he was perceived as not a good leader and not a good negotiator..i thought he learned something because it was his lackluster performance that many stayed home in 2010

      •  Are there (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kefauver, skohayes

        US combat troops still in Iraq? I think not.

        Have they raised the age minimum for SS and medicare?

        Where are you getting your facts?

      •  But, But, But People Told Me this is a Zombie Lie! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TheLizardKing, Larsstephens
        i thought he learned something because it was his lackluster performance that many stayed home in 2010

        When President Obama actually signs Social Security and Medicare cuts into law, then I'll agree with you that he is a "sellout."

        by kefauver on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:25:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  the reason so many stayed home in 2010 is (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackClouds, TheKF1, TracieLynn

        the same reason that so many usually stay home in midterms.

        midterm elections have much lower turnout generally than presidential elections.  but in 2010, R's were extremely angry and had higher turnout than usual for a midterm.  D voters are generally less likely to vote in midterms.

        opposition parties usually gain seats in midterms.  when the economy is bad, the opposition usually gains large numbers (unless it is discredited and very unpopular, as with R's during great depression).

    •  because he doesn't need a single Republican (5+ / 0-)

      vote to get any legislation passed, eh?

      Yeah, doing nothing will send us over the fiscal cliff and cause tax rates to go up including tax rates on lower and middle income families that can ill afford a tax increase right now. And it won't extend unemployment benefits, either.

      What you see as the President's "addiction" to bipartisanship I see as his acknowledgment of the simple reality of divided government.

      •  a good read for you (8+ / 0-)

        http://thinkprogress.org/...

        maybe it makes sense to you...maybe it doesn't...

        but it makes perfect sense to me...and show why the President is constantly rolled by never showing any level of partisanship...

        maybe you don't understand the word addictions....everyone the drinks isn't addicted to alcohol...someone who can't live without it is...

        where does this President stand?

        "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

        by justmy2 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 12:34:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Don't be so scared (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jbearlaw

        jUmP!

        The symbol for the Republican party shouldn't be an elephant -- it should be a unicorn.

        by Deadicated Marxist on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 12:40:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  No (6+ / 0-)

        Giving into hostage taking is rewarding bad behavior.  With each time, they go for more and more.  You never win by giving into hostage takers. The President and Boehner can play politics all they want behind closed doors, but when the President is the one offering up the social safety net as a bargaining chip, he is betraying the trust and faith that the people of this country put in him.  He IS the President.

        This is not 13 dimensional chess.  This is not even good negotiation.  This is simply unconscionable and so what if there multiple casualties among those most vulnerable of our citizens?  It seems to be all about getting a deal, regardless of the bodies left in its wake.  And the damage will be long term, possibly forever.

        I have lost all faith and respect for the President after this.  It is going to take a long to win me and a lot of other good Democrats back.  

        "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

        by gulfgal98 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:40:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What exactly is "unconscionable"? (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackClouds, TheKF1, emelyn, Larsstephens

          Please explain.
          What deal has been struck? None.
          What cuts have been agreed to? None.
          So I'm kind of wondering what everyone is rending their garments over here.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:50:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  people have seen the act before (3+ / 0-)

            take a look at prior examples and you will may figure why people are agressively pushing back...start with the public option...end with Susan Rice....and lots in between...

            "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

            by justmy2 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:56:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Let's take your examples (0+ / 0-)

              It's the fault of Obama's poor negotiating skills that Joe Lieberman vowed to filibuster the ACA if it include a public option?

              It's the fault of Obama's poor negotiating skills that he couldn't persuade McCain and Graham to give up their vendetta against Rice? You do realize either one of them could have placed an indefinite hold on her nomination under Senate rules.

          •  What has the president put on the table, is the (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gulfgal98, TracieLynn

            question.

            And you already know the answer to that.

            The track record of the president, his lack of negotiation skills certainly do have people "rending their garments over here."

            "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand?" David Crosby

            by allenjo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 02:11:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Rending garments is a waste of your time. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Larsstephens

              He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

              by Sophie Amrain on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 03:28:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  There is no table (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              emelyn, Larsstephens

              In case you haven't heard, earlier today Boehner walked away from the deal and is going with a political stunt in the House:

              "The president’s offer of $1.3 trillion in revenues and $850 billion in spending reductions fails to meet the test that the president promised the American people – a balanced approach," Boehner said in dramatic, 50-second "press conference" Wednesday. "Tomorrow, the House will pass legislation to make permanent tax relief for nearly every American – 99.81 percent of the American people. And then the president will have a decision to make: He can call on Senate Democrats to pass that bill, or he can be responsible for the largest tax increase in American history.”
              The "Plan B" vote is a tactical maneuver by Boehner, aimed at forcing Democrats to vote for the bill or risk raising taxes on the vast majority of Americans. According to Republican insiders, the thinking is that by getting the revenue question out of the way, the GOP will have more leverage to negotiate spending cuts and entitlement reforms during the debt ceiling debate next year.
              Obama, meanwhile, has promised to veto the "Plan B" bill should it get to his desk. In his dueling press conference Wednesday, he accused Republicans of walking away from an imminent compromise that had included big concessions from the White House, including raising the income tax threshold to $400,000 and changing cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security.
              http://www.businessinsider.com/...

              The question is, will Boehner get enough Republicans to sign onto a bill that increases taxes?

              His lack of negotiation skills? His track record? Really?

              “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

              by skohayes on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 03:46:37 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  By offering it, (0+ / 0-)

                the President put it on the table and as a result, has already done terrible harm to Social Security.  The Republicans now know that Social Security is fair game, along with the rest of the social safety net since Social Security is the most fiscally solid program in the social safety net.

                "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

                by gulfgal98 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 12:27:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  What is unconscionable? (0+ / 0-)

            Holy cow!  Are you joking?

            The social safety net which includes Social Security is the foundation of the Democratic Party.  It is one of the things that keeps our society a little more civilized by helping to keep seniors out of poverty.  Further, Social Security is held in a separate trust fund from the rest of the budget and has never contributed one red cent to the debt.  The President is the one who offered to make Social Security as part of the debt negotiations in the form of a chained COLA.  What is unconscionable is that the chained COLA will hurt the poorest and oldest people on SS.  It is very regressive.

            I do not know about everyone else here, but I find trying to pay down the debt on the backs of the oldest and poorest of our citizens is unconscionable.  

            "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

            by gulfgal98 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 12:25:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  What's your experience with negotiation? (0+ / 0-)

          I negotiated for 8 years in my job as an attorney. My assessment of Obama's negotiation is that he is getting a lot of bang for the buck in a very difficult environment.

          •  actually, (0+ / 0-)

            I never personally negotiated anything in the political arena, but I had plenty experience in over thirty years of working in government to watch politicians negotiate.  Not once did I ever see a politician offer something they were not willing to part with.  Not once did I ever see a politician offer more early in the negotiations than was necessary.  In order to negotiate, you have to be able to walk away from a bad deal.  The President seems more intent on cutting deal, any deal even if it is a bad deal, than he does to say that he will not make cuts in the social safety net.  This IS a very bad deal for seniors who are dependent upon Social Security as their main source of income because the chained COLA is very regressive.

            "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

            by gulfgal98 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 12:33:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry, watching something (0+ / 0-)

              from afar (you're not even privy to the inside thinking or strategies) is not at all the same thing as doing something yourself.

              You are missing some of the key details about the chained COLA proposal, too.

              http://www.salon.com/...

              There are two major changes necessary. First, add a bump in benefits to the very old, who are more likely to have high healthcare bills and to have exhausted their savings that supplemented their Social Security income. Second, exempt Supplemental Security Income, which serves the poorest, disabled and blind but still often leaves people below the poverty line. SSI benefits should actually be increased, but that would require a different effort, so it should at the minimum be exempted from the CPI change.

              Obama has indicated that he will demand these changes. The Simpson-Bowles and Rivlin-Domenici deficit reduction plans, which both included a move to the chained CPI, also included similar caveats. Nancy Pelosi said the changes would be included in a final deal: “The details of this are not all ironed out, but they all mitigate for helping the poorest and neediest in our society, whether they’re Supplemental Security Income recipients, whether they’re 80 and older or whether they’re truly needy in-between.”

      •  The fear of some here of the Fiscal Bluff (6+ / 0-)

        is inexplicable. Progressives should embrace it.

        The (temporary) reduction in social spending required by sequestration, in return for an end to the Obama-Bush tax cuts and massive defense cuts that will be impossible to achieve otherwise...

        is what real compromise looks like.

        When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

        by PhilJD on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:40:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  With a teabag congress (0+ / 0-)

      He has not choice but to be bipartisan. When dems decided to sleep in in 2010, we handed the congress to assholes

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