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  •  Bullshit (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bewareofme, Onomastic, Cedwyn, emelyn, vcmvo2

    This...

    If someone is insulting how chained CPI is on the table, and that Barack Obama put said chained CPI there (which is 100% true)
    is bullshit.

    It's not like TPM is hard to find....get your facts straight.

    Amid news reports that President Obama is considering a proposal from House Speaker John Boehner to slow the growth of Social Security payments over time as part of a broader budget deal to avoid the fiscal cliff, senior Democratic congressional aides are portraying the idea as a more palatable alternative to other benefit cuts Republicans have sought.

    As part of a deal that would include higher taxes on top earners and an increase in the debt limit, Republicans are pushing a plan to index Social Security benefits and perhaps tax brackets to a slower-growing measure of inflation called chained CPI.

    The plan would reduce Social Security spending by over $100 billion over 10 years by reducing cost of living adjustments, and potentially increase tax revenues by hastening taxpayers into higher tax brackets.

    "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

    by durrati on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:45:27 AM PST

    •  and fix your diary. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cedwyn

      "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

      by durrati on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:46:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No. (7+ / 0-)

        From the exact same day:

        WASHINGTON -- The White House made a new offer to House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Monday to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff. The proposal matches the amount of spending cuts with revenue-raisers, calls for two stimulus measures and seeks an avoidance of a debt limit fight for the next two years.
        (snip)
        In his latest offer to Boehner, the president proposes $800 billion in savings, including $290 billion in interest savings, $100 billion in defense cuts, and $130 billion in savings that would come from an adjustment to the inflation index for Social Security benefits. The administration insisted that there would be "protections for most-vulnerable populations" perhaps by indexing the changes so that they don't affect those with low-income.
        We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

        Who cares what the fucking Republicans would vote for? They'd vote for cooking poor children and exporting them as delicacies if they had the chance. -- Jim P

        by Colorado is the Shiznit on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:07:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  there is no agreeing to disagree on facts (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Yoshimi, vcmvo2, durrati

          facts are facts; to disagree with facts is to deny reality.

          here is what durrati's article said:

          Amid news reports that President Obama is considering a proposal from House Speaker John Boehner to slow the growth of Social Security payments over time as part of a broader budget deal to avoid the fiscal cliff, senior Democratic congressional aides are portraying the idea as a more palatable alternative to other benefit cuts Republicans have sought.

          As part of a deal that would include higher taxes on top earners and an increase in the debt limit, Republicans are pushing a plan to index Social Security benefits and perhaps tax brackets to a slower-growing measure of inflation called chained CPI.

          so the language clearly indicates that it originated as a republican idea.  if you want to argue it's not iron-clad, that'd be one thing.  

          but what you quoted in no way refutes durrati's claim:

          In his latest offer to Boehner, the president proposes $800 billion in savings, including $290 billion in interest savings, $100 billion in defense cuts, and $130 billion in savings that would come from an adjustment to the inflation index for Social Security benefits..
          the key word there is "latest."  that obama's latest offer includes chained CPI does NOT establish that the idea originally came from Obama.  

          what was obama's first proposal to boehner et al?  did it include chained CPI? what is the first news story where we see the idea presented?

          Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

          by Cedwyn on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:20:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I see an attempt to turn this diary (4+ / 0-)

          into another WWE wrestling match, only virtual.

          Let's not.

          A thousand Sharkeys are invading a thousand Shires every day across our country.--James Wells

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 09:33:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. You come into *this* diary with *that*? (2+ / 0-)

        A thousand Sharkeys are invading a thousand Shires every day across our country.--James Wells

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 09:32:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you. n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cedwyn

      "Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism." Hubert H. Humphrey

      by Onomastic on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:43:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is exactly why (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic, Cedwyn, durrati

      this diary is skewed in favor of one "side" (precisely the "side" that the diarist is on, of course) and therefore rendered it hypocritical.  Just had to get in that dig ...

      "I want everyone to be civil ... as long as they support my reality and POV".

      I don't know why this diary, which had some good points which I would have tipped and rec'd, had to be ruined by inserting that divisive crap.

      Meh.  Same old shit, different day.

      •  That's fine. (3+ / 0-)

        Everybody knows which side my bread is buttered, though.

        Who cares what the fucking Republicans would vote for? They'd vote for cooking poor children and exporting them as delicacies if they had the chance. -- Jim P

        by Colorado is the Shiznit on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:07:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly (3+ / 0-)

          So when you can give specific examples of when your "side" has gone too far (as you did not hesitate to do with point #2), perhaps a diary like this can be taken more seriously by both "sides".

          Have a nice day, Shiz.

          •  I can't be 100% objective. (3+ / 0-)

            My diaries and comments are always going to have my personality in them. This is the best I could come up with.

            A nice day to you as well.

            Who cares what the fucking Republicans would vote for? They'd vote for cooking poor children and exporting them as delicacies if they had the chance. -- Jim P

            by Colorado is the Shiznit on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:34:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Agitprop guised as personality (0+ / 0-)

              nice....

              "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

              by durrati on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 04:29:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Why was this comment necessary? (0+ / 0-)

                I already know you dislike me. Big deal. We haven't exchanged a cordial word in years.

                Who cares what the fucking Republicans would vote for? They'd vote for cooking poor children and exporting them as delicacies if they had the chance. -- Jim P

                by Colorado is the Shiznit on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:15:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Cause your diary still lies (0+ / 0-)

                  if you had fixed it I would have let Cedwyn's admonitions be the end of it....

                  "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

                  by durrati on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:25:22 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The best choice you could have made (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Colorado is the Shiznit

                    is to stay out of this diary.

                    Many people on various sides of the spectrum have found insight and pleasure in reading this piece. She's a good writer. You can't expect her to agree with you, or to have completely left her perspective out of this. But her basic points are applicable no matter where you stand. Hell, even I, as someone who tends to agree with Shiz on most things, felt a little bit challenged by her words, because I recognize I could improve my approach if I took these ideas to heart. And that is because her words speak truth. Never mind her personal bias, the points were well made, and very relevant.

                    I've read countless diaries by others on the other side here that I felt were biased, despite good intentions and good advice. In most cases if I couldn't stomach the person, I'd just stay out. If I had ventured in, and said things like you are saying, your friends would have hide rated me into oblivion. Notice no one is doing that to you?

                    That speaks volumes here.

                    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                    by ZhenRen on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 11:02:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Thanks, Zhen. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ZhenRen

                      Who cares what the fucking Republicans would vote for? They'd vote for cooking poor children and exporting them as delicacies if they had the chance. -- Jim P

                      by Colorado is the Shiznit on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:30:51 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  The issue you here (0+ / 0-)

                      is not your pleasure or her bias, it is her assertion of fiction as fact. Someone must insist on truthfulness, or the end of the road is a version Fox News on the left.

                      "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

                      by durrati on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 05:04:26 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You've missed the forest for the trees (0+ / 0-)

                        Big picture is what matters here, not the pieces or the threads, but the whole fabric. I think most people get that. Everyone knows where shiz stands, and they get what she was saying.

                        "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                        by ZhenRen on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:14:57 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  you guys are hopeless (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          ZhenRen

                          you sound like the Romney campaign....

                          "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

                          by durrati on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:36:34 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  LOL! (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm literally chuckling out loud. Really, I am. Romney? You don't know me, and I won't enlighten you. But rest assured you are far more like Romney than I am.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 07:01:26 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  When caught peddling lies about (0+ / 0-)

                            the president, the Rmoney Campaign had much the same response, that they weren't going to let facts stand in the way of a good narrative...look in the mirror.

                            "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

                            by durrati on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 07:24:13 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

                            Okay. In the spirit of this diary, I think I'll take her advice.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:48:56 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

    •  Meant to add that I found the analysis by the (6+ / 0-)

      Center of Budget and Policy Priorities referred to by TPM important reading.

      ....Because many economists believe the official CPI is upwardly biased and regard the chained CPI as a more accurate measure of inflation, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has long supported switching to the chained CPI for adjusting federal benefits and taxes — if it is accompanied by several necessary adjustments to prevent significant hardship, as described below. The policy clearly amounts to a reduction in future Social Security benefits, which many find objectionable. However, we believe that the chained CPI is a reasonable component of a comprehensive package to put the budget on a sustainable course, under the following conditions:

            - The change needs to apply to both benefit programs and the tax code, and the proceeds from applying the chained CPI to the tax code should go entirely for deficit reduction. Using some or all of those proceeds to finance a reduction in tax rates should not be acceptable.

              - The change should be accompanied by a modest benefit increase (or "bump") for long-time Social Security beneficiaries. Switching to the chained CPI would lower Social Security benefits (relative to currently scheduled benefits) by amounts that grow with each additional year that an individual receives benefits. This could lead to hardship among very old people. As a result, a modest benefit increase for people who have received benefits for many years should accompany the switch to the chained CPI. Both the Bowles-Simpson and Rivlin-Domenici plans include this adjustment along with their chained CPI proposal.

             - Policymakers should exempt the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program from the switch or make other changes to SSI to mitigate the chained CPI's impact. Applying the chained CPI to SSI, which serves the nation's poorest elderly and disabled people and still leaves them well below the poverty line, raises particular problems. Policymakers should exempt SSI from the switch or soften the impact on SSI beneficiaries as described below.

             - The proposal should specifically identify the programs to be moved to the chained CPI to avoid confusion or unintended effects. The CPI appears in hundreds of places in the U.S. Code and other laws, affecting not just annual cost-of-living adjustments (COLAs) but also caps, eligibility thresholds, reporting requirements, fines or penalties, and payment rates for various programs. Only about a dozen such provisions dominate the budgetary effects of switching to the chained CPI. To avoid confusion and future litigation, lawmakers should amend specific statutes as appropriate, rather than enacting blanket language, and focus on major provisions with significant budgetary effects — essentially annual cost-of-living adjustments in retirement and related benefit programs and annual inflation adjustments in the tax code.....

      http://www.cbpp.org/...

      The entire analysis deserves a thorough reading.

      After the horror in CT, I think all our nerve endings are stripped bare. At least I know mine are and that is when it's far too easy for me to over react.

      Perhaps we all need to take a deep breath and slow down.

      There's more than enough pain these days. We don't need to add to it.

      "Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism." Hubert H. Humphrey

      by Onomastic on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:05:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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