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View Diary: Liability Insurance for Guns (361 comments)

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  •  Actually, what you want is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, KVoimakas, happymisanthropy

    for the insurance cost to make it too much of a burden for ownership - and even if that's not your motive - that's how it will be framed.

    What happens when you let your insurance lapse?  With cars, you can own an uninsured car, it's just illegal to drive it (in most states) on public roads uninsured.  So a gun owner lets their insurance lapse - then what?  They're not allowed to shoot it?  It's confiscated?...by who?

    This is a "nice try" but it won't happen.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 05:51:06 AM PST

    •  On lapse (4+ / 0-)

      it has to be surrendered to the local police, and the owner gets it back when he shows proof of insurance.

      Insurers would be required to notify police of a lapse in insurance - exactly as it is now in states that require auto insurance.

      I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

      by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 05:59:18 AM PST

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      •  Huh. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happymisanthropy

        Good thing the local LEOs only know about 6 of my 30 some odd guns then right?

        (Just pointing out an issue.)

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:01:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, I think that is good at all (0+ / 0-)

          not to mention the local fire department - they just might want to spend their time evacuating your neighbors because of the ammo cooking off instead of fighting a fire at your house...

          I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

          by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:04:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't have THAT much ammo. (0+ / 0-)

            And I don't reload anymore, so all the powder supplies are gone.

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:08:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Kyle, a few weeks ago (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mrblifil, cybersaur, Miggles

              you were arguing that 6,000 rounds wasn't exorbitant (the Aurora shooter) and said that you often have thousands prior to a shooting match...

              And just how many does it take to whack a firefighter who comes in to save your home not knowing that there is a store of ammo on the premises?

              I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

              by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:13:55 AM PST

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              •  6k rounds isn't. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Otteray Scribe, rockhound

                Right now my stores are actually kind low. Probably only around 2k 7.62x54R, 1k, .45ACP, and 600 7.62x39 with some assorted other ammo.

                Here's the thing.

                Modern ammo doesn't explode like it does in the movies. Yes, all of that going off at once would be very unpleasant, but it's not going to 'shoot' the bullet like you always see in the movies. I want to say Mythbusters did something on this. Also, I'd like to point out that if my wife or I was home, we'd tell them about having ammo in the house. Otherwise, one of my fellow instructors (who has, quite literally, hundreds and hundreds of pounds of ammo and powder) knows to tell them not to go in the house.

                Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:16:46 AM PST

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                •  Bullshit (0+ / 0-)

                  it doesn't explode - I have scars on my left hand from when I was 15, sitting around a campfire, and an idiot decided it would be fun to throw some .22 LR rounds into the fire.

                  You don't think it explodes?  Fine, then you should have no problem firing up the BBQ, throwing in a varied selection from your stock, and standing in front of the BBQ.

                  Let me know how that works out...oh, wait, you won't be able to...

                  I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                  by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 03:14:31 PM PST

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      •  I know your intentions are good (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KVoimakas, Miggles

        but I just don't see any of this happening.

        IMHO, it's high capacity magazines - I think you could get support from the majority of gun owners, police, government and maybe even the NRA for a limit.

        It's logical and a buyback program can be implemented to try to get those in existance out of circulation.  After a period of time, the ownership or possesion of a high volume magazine should become a felony without a special permit (similar to the permit one would have to have for a fully automatic weapon).

        Even this won't prevent a potential further shooting but it's sensible and it's an area where you can get a brod level of support.

        Any effective piece of gun control legislation must have the suppoert of the majority of gun owners or it will never work.

        The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

        by ctexrep on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:11:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think focusing on the instruments (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TrueBlueDem, SpamNunn, happy camper

          is a mistake.  Either someone is law-abiding or not, and whether the weapon holds 10 rounds or 15 is nearly irrelevant if the owner is responsible and law-abiding.

          Far better that we focus on keeping the weapons out of the hands of those would not be such - through licensing and background investigations, establishing security standards for safe storage and, to help the victims, require the insurance coverage.

          I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

          by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:19:34 AM PST

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          •  law-abiding or not? (0+ / 0-)

            Many people are perfectly law-abiding right up to the moment they become murderers. Seung-Hui Cho, Jared Loughner and James Holmes had no criminal records and legally owned their guns right up to the moment they went on shooting sprees. The same dynamic plays out over and over on a smaller scale where people are law-abiding gun owners until they shoot their girlfriend, wife, co-worker, classmate, etc.

            Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

            by Joe Bob on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 09:25:01 AM PST

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    •  I want owners to be responsible for deadly weapons (8+ / 0-)

      If they want to own them. Period.

    •  Gun registration renewals (3+ / 0-)

      Require gun registration to be annually renewed just like cars. When you renew, you must supply proof of insurance. If you do not renew then you registration is flagged and you get a visit from the ATF and they will remove the uninsured weapons.

      --- Keep Christian mythology out of science class! @cybersaur1

      by cybersaur on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:17:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So if I NEVER register the firearms? nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happymisanthropy

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:20:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are a criminal subject to imprisonment (4+ / 0-)

          (-2.38, -3.28) Independent thinker

          by TrueBlueDem on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:45:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Good luck building the jail cells for the millions (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shrike, happymisanthropy

            of gun owners who would refuse to register their firearms.

            And I thought we had a big enough prison industry as it is.

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:47:14 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Tough guys like you are all talk once the fuzz (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Joe Bob, mamamedusa, cybersaur

              is involved.

              (-2.38, -3.28) Independent thinker

              by TrueBlueDem on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:51:51 AM PST

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              •  I'm not talking about myself. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                happymisanthropy

                But hey, let's look at Canada. Canada had registration for pretty much everything.

                The Justice Department's Austin said the government believes there are 2.2 million gun
                owners among Canada's 30 million citizens. He said 1.8 million owners applied for licenses by
                the deadline, a compliance rate of about 80 percent, and he estimated that the remainder will
                sell, disable or surrender their firearms.
                Bruce Hutton, a former Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officer who founded the Law
                abiding Unregistered Firearms Ass'n to urge civil disobedience of the new law, said the
                government has, over the past few years, continually lowered its estimates on the numbers of
                guns and gun owners in Canada. Their goal is obvious--make the compliance numbers look
                more favorable.
                "The government is lying to everyone," Hutton said. "About 10 years ago, the RCMP Solicitor
                General conducted a study and, based on retail and manufacturing figures, estimated the
                number of gun owners at 4 to 6 million. Since then, the government has revised its estimate
                on the number of owners downward, to 3.6 million, then 3.3 million and now 2.2 million. I'm
                sure it's at least twice that number."
                Citing other RCMP data, the pro-gun Canadian Institute for Legislative Action (CILA) estimates
                that as many as 7 million people in the country own a total of 21 million firearms.
                "The government doesn't want people to know this because it will show the licensing plan for
                the dismal failure that it is," Hutton said. "Registration will be even worse. The law is a farce.
                Civil disobedience will make it meaningless. It's a travesty, a terrible law."

                Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:54:55 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I could see it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cybersaur

              we've got the capacity, they're just full of prisoners of the war on drugs right now.

              There is nothing so ridiculous that some philosopher has not said it. -- Cicero

              by tytalus on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 09:30:18 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Welcome, inmate number 28301-016 (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TrueBlueDem
              Corrections Corporation of America is happy to have you at our new, state of the art facilities!
              There's always money to build new prisons.

              --- Keep Christian mythology out of science class! @cybersaur1

              by cybersaur on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 04:03:40 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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