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View Diary: Liability Insurance for Guns (361 comments)

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  •  No, all weapons need insurance (9+ / 0-)

    from purchase to sale.

    If you are negligent in storing the weapon on your property, and someone is subsequently injured by that weapon - on or off your property - then the insurance covers the damages.

    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

    by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:01:34 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kestrel9000, Iberian

      Well, thought experiment time:

      I own 30 some odd firearms. Michigan requires registration of handguns so the only ones that are actually tied to me legally are those (I think I have 6). If someone shot themselves with one of my firearms it's "Hey, it was his gun and he was just showing it off to me. How do I know he didn't have insurance?" time.

      My firearms (and even some of my blades) are locked up so I don't see that happening.

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:05:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ahhh...let's just lie (9+ / 0-)

        Sounds real responsible of you...

        In reality, when you renew your homeowner's policy, you would be required to disclose; failure to do so would be insurance fraud.

        Have fun with that...

        I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

        by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:09:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't have a homeowner's policy. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kestrel9000

          I'm not saying I would lie, just pointing out a loophole. I wouldn't be put in that situation because my firearms are locked up and I'm the only one who knows the code.

          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:11:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then you would have to purchase a (6+ / 0-)

            stand-alone policy - by law - and the insurance company would require disclosure.

            I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

            by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:15:26 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And they would know I have guns how? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              happymisanthropy

              That's my point.

              Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:18:05 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Because you would be violating the law (5+ / 0-)

                by not getting the insurance, which would require disclosure so the the company could asses risk and price the policy.

                Are you saying that if such a law was passed, you would not comply?

                I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:21:40 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  That's not what I'm saying. (4+ / 0-)

                  Though I would guess that there are a large number of people out there who would not comply.

                  Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                  by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:26:21 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And then they would be charged (7+ / 0-)

                    and face prosecution when the non-disclosed possession came to light.

                    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                    by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:29:01 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Again, couple problems with that. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Otteray Scribe, thestructureguy

                      But we'll just keep going 'round in circles.

                      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                      by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:31:56 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Possibly (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        DefendOurConstitution

                        Can we solve every problem overnight?

                        Of course not, but that doesn't mean we can't start....

                        I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                        by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:41:07 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  That's of course, assuming that we both agree (0+ / 0-)

                          that this is a good start.

                          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                          by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:41:49 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Doesn't matter whether you and I agree (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            KVoimakas, Miggles, Debby, madhaus

                            the train is leaving the station on gun regulation...one can get on the train, or stay off...the one thing that someone should not do is stand in front of the train...

                            And with that, I am out of here...past my bedtime...back in 6 hours or so...

                            I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                            by Wayward Wind on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:44:08 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't know about you, but the last time (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            happy camper, rockhound

                            someone stood in front of a train as it tried to leave the station, they stopped the train.

                            Which is what I'm expecting from Congress this time.

                            I remember seeing the Manchin (spelling?) diary about him praising the NRA after he said we need more good regulations. I think this is what's going to happen. You will see a call to DO SOMETHING and since there's a lot of pressure for it to be about guns, what'll actually happen is...nothing. It'll get filibustered in the Senate or it won't pass the House or the shock and outrage will fade until the next time. Too bad we couldn't use this for something that would A. actually fix the problem and B. actually have a chance of happening.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:49:40 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm glad you're so proud of this. (0+ / 0-)

                            I find it disgusting.

                            An unsuccessful shoe bomb attack resulted in nine years of inconvenience for every flier in the country. It would be nice to think [this diabolical act] might lead to some similar inconveniences. --mrblifil

                            by Debby on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:52:31 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Proud? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            rockhound, happymisanthropy

                            Try disgusted.

                            We could've used this to push something that actually had a chance of becoming law. We could've tried to push the mental health care angle HARD, especially since parts of the GOP and the NRA are saying "hey mental health..." but instead, we're going to get the same proposals for gun control that will go nowhere and we're right back where we started.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:57:19 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What comes through (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mamamedusa

                            is your pride that there is nothing we can do about all the guns and all the rounds. If you think you're going to overthrow a tyrannical government that has drones and tanks and missiles with your 30 guns, I laugh! But you keep them in your hands, and in the hands of the crazy man in Indiana who threatened his wife and the school where she worked, and the man in Missouri who shot the people in the barber shop because he misheard what they said, and the asshole who left his loaded handgun in the theatre in Washington, in the spirit of "access."

                            With all the RBKA members, you could have blanketed the diary list with your ideas but I saw very few. I went into some RBKA diaries and I asked, what can we do? I realize we have to have consensus to more forward. What will you guys lead on? I got condescension and little else. I had hoped we could be allies but I don't see that happening. I'm done seeing it from your side since you all refuse to see if from our side.

                            An unsuccessful shoe bomb attack resulted in nine years of inconvenience for every flier in the country. It would be nice to think [this diabolical act] might lead to some similar inconveniences. --mrblifil

                            by Debby on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:39:50 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I kept a very low profile after this incident (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            rockhound, happymisanthropy

                            because nothing I could've said would've been met with anything but derision. Hell, I didn't say anything and there were still calls for bans of the RKBA group and one particular threat of violence aimed at each individual member of the group.

                            You know what I would've proposed with regards to gun control?

                            Absolutely nothing.

                            Because I don't think it's going to pass. Because I think rural pro-RKBA Dems and members of the GOP won't let it pass. We could've used this momentum to focus on mental health. The GOP would've RAN with it since it would've taken the focus off firearms.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:43:33 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Mental health (0+ / 0-)

                            and violent video games. Because they don't have those anywhere else. That's the scourge of our American society!

                            An unsuccessful shoe bomb attack resulted in nine years of inconvenience for every flier in the country. It would be nice to think [this diabolical act] might lead to some similar inconveniences. --mrblifil

                            by Debby on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:48:31 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It certainly isn't firearms. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            rockhound, happymisanthropy

                            We keep getting compared to other industrialized nations that have things like health care, better social safety nets, and more. It isn't just a one issue thing.

                            I'd like to point out that if we focused on mental health care, we'd actually be doing something, instead of wasting time, energy, and political capital on gun control that in the end won't be effective if it even passes.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:50:35 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  There's the problem (0+ / 0-)
                            It certainly isn't firearms.
                            No acknowledgement of the obvious. Guns don't kill people. BULLSHIT! Yes, there are a lot of contributing factors but you won't even allow that the widespread availability could have ANYTHING to do with it!

                            There were a lot of people looking for answers the last couple days. There were a few people being unreasonable but the vast majority were just asking questions without derision. But apparently, two or three assholes hurting feelings is enough for your delicate sensibilities. Well, how about treating today as a new day? Put the focus on mental health. We certainly aren't AGAINST that.

                            An unsuccessful shoe bomb attack resulted in nine years of inconvenience for every flier in the country. It would be nice to think [this diabolical act] might lead to some similar inconveniences. --mrblifil

                            by Debby on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 10:44:01 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Here's the thing. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            happymisanthropy

                            The genie's out of the bottle. 283 million plus firearms. Widespread availability isn't going away.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 11:36:28 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Maybe you should have said something within RKBA (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            tytalus, Debby

                            Because you're one of the more reasonable members. So instead it was the extremists doing the talking "for" you guys, and that didn't help the perception of how others see the group as a whole.

                            Newtown shocked everyone.  I can understand taking a low profile but this is the time to push for a different group culture.  Where it was beforehand was not healthy on DKos, as it was the social equivalent of a bunch of yahoos walking into various saloons and shooting into the ceiling because they can and who's gonna stop us, you and what army huh?

                            If anyone should be offering solutions to avoiding more Newtowns it's you guys.  There's too much "this won't work" and not enough "how about this instead?"

                  •  It would be insurance fraud. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Miggles, DefendOurConstitution

                    You'd be prosecuted.

        •  Not necessarily. If your make a claim for the (0+ / 0-)

          gun liability then yes.  But if your house burns down what has that got to do with whether you disclosed a gun?  Has to be a material breach.  Knowing insurance companies I'd say they'd claim that, but they'd have a hard time showing it was material.  

          Romney is George W. Bush without brains.

          by thestructureguy on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 04:05:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  How much did Sandy Hook cost? (0+ / 0-)

      I mean, why don't we just pay it off and call it even?  

      I don't particularly disagree with the principle of having gun owners pay for the burden they impose on the rest of society, but I don't think it goes far enough.  

      On average, children (just children, mind you) are killed by guns at a rate of one in three days.  That's one Sandy Hook for every two months.  That's Sixty-Six (66) Sandy Hooks since 9-11.  Over a thousand children killed.  Each one shot to death.  Can we just pay that off and call it even?  If so, whom do we pay?  

      The problem is not the fees.  It's the guns.  Get rid of the guns.   Anything less is murder.  

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