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  •  I appreciate the depth of your comment, Phil (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PhilJD

    But I come to a bit of a different conclusion. I agree with your final point, but real compromise may well not be possible with people who are trying to drown government in a bathtub. And by screwing it up, they point to it and say "See? It doesn't work, so we need to make it less influential in your lives." I think it plays into the low-information voter's preconceptions, and regardless of who caused the government to fail, the people who say that government is broken as their default get credit for "making sense". (Things might be different with a real media, but that's another conversation.) Economists at CAP and CBPP believe that the stimulus measures that are a part of the package would provide enough growth to cancel out the effect of the cut, and that going over the cliff would mean stimulus and certain other programs in the deal would become impossible to pass.

    Whether or not they're right, I can't say. But I do have a problem believing that the GOP will act any differently at all in the New Year. I can't see them giving an inch, even for tax cuts, unless they're tax cuts for everyone, which is the issue right now.

    "Mitt Romney isn't a vulture capitalist: vultures only eat things that are dead." -S. Colbert

    by newinfluence on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 01:34:03 PM PST

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    •  They're not interested in compromise, no. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tardis10, SpecialKinFlag, TracieLynn

      Which is why we say

      See this nice Defense Budget we're holding? Be a shame if anything happened to it.
      The Dems hold the winning hand, if they're willing to play it through.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 01:38:05 PM PST

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      •  with a sane opponent, you're right (0+ / 0-)

        But I'm not sure that logic or reason apply to the House Republicans, especially the class of 2011.

        And I'm guessing that they're going to be holding the debt ceiling in their hands in the same way that you suggest holding the defense sequester. That's why the Obama deal includes the debt ceiling in it. They are willing to default on our debt if it means political points, and they are going to be just as reckless as they were in 2011, which would be a long-term disaster for the economy.

        "Mitt Romney isn't a vulture capitalist: vultures only eat things that are dead." -S. Colbert

        by newinfluence on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 01:56:44 PM PST

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        •  The ones hurt most by an actual refusal (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tardis10, SpecialKinFlag, BentLiberal

          to raise the debt ceiling are the bankers and the rest of the 1%.

          They're content to keep their powder dry while it's all just teabagger bluster, but they will NEVER allow a real-world default on the American debt.

          When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

          by PhilJD on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 02:01:38 PM PST

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          •  They've been pressuring them to make THIS deal (0+ / 0-)

            That's why the President pulled together the CEOs and Chamber reps to do his bidding on this. But it hasn't helped a thing to this point. And seeing that these people STILL don't seem to comprehend what the debt ceiling actually is, I have no confidence that they'll act rationally.

            "Mitt Romney isn't a vulture capitalist: vultures only eat things that are dead." -S. Colbert

            by newinfluence on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 02:28:34 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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