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View Diary: Fighting the NRA leadership means knowing who is in it (285 comments)

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  •  Comparison to what? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jakewaters, Smoh, trumpeter

    Do you mean to say that because guns scare bad guys even when not fired, all the murders and all the accidental shootings do not constitute a public health problem?  I confess I do not see how that follows.

    Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

    by Boundegar on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:58:51 AM PST

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    •  Your claim that (0+ / 0-)

      defensive use is irrelevant because relatively few criminals are killed is untrue, which is what your original comment said.

      Defensive uses number anywhere from 100,000 to over 2 million per year, depending on whose estimates you believe. Few of these incidents involve shots fired, much less injury or death.

      "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

      by happy camper on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:13:38 AM PST

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      •  So if trained professionals (0+ / 0-)

        were responsible for every one of those defensive uses, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?  It would certainly have a negative impact on gun manufacturers' profitability.  But aside from that, is having a lot of guns in the hands of untrained civilians really better than relying on law enforcement?

        Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

        by Boundegar on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:27:59 AM PST

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        •  Rely on them (0+ / 0-)

          for what? Courts have ruled that law enforcement officers have no obligation to protect you or I. Most often they will show up and take a report, then make an effort to apprehend the bad guy. But protect? No.

          "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

          by happy camper on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:35:51 AM PST

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          •  Well I guess we better get used to living in the (0+ / 0-)

            Wild West then.  Because it would be impossible to change the laws in any way that would make people safer.  The only way America can be great is if everybody carries.  Is that your point?

            And the profitability of gun manufacturers is a completely unrelated issue, I'm sure.

            Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

            by Boundegar on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:03:28 AM PST

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            •  My point is (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound

              that when seconds count the cops are only minutes away. Unless you live next door to a police station, by the time police arrive, the crime has been committed and the perp is long gone.

              Cops are not security guards. Their job is to apprehend people who commit crimes--a worthwhile goal, to be sure, since the majority of crime is committed by a very small percentage of the population, so locking up perpetrators is an efficient form of crime prevention.

              Ask a resident of an urban area if the cops protect them from criminals. Be prepared for prolonged laughter.

              You do know that crime has been falling for years, right? We're safer now than we were in the 60's, statistically. This country is generally pretty safe, though you wouldn't know it from the 24/7 news cycle.

              "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

              by happy camper on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:40:22 AM PST

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              •  A couple of valid points. (0+ / 0-)

                I would still prefer to be safe without a weapon.

                Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

                by Boundegar on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:57:47 PM PST

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