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View Diary: PA Shoooting Spree at the Same time as NRA Presser (4 Dead) (277 comments)

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  •  There Are Far More People Who Are Mentally Ill (4+ / 0-)

    the there are mentally ill people who go on a murderous rampage.

    Imagine if Larza had attack Sandy Hollow with a Bowie knife instead of an AR-15 and multiple 30 round clips. I'm sure that right now there would be some 26 people who would be glad that he had used a different weapon.

    Because the weapon does matter!

    But hey, you're free to push NRA memes - blame anything but the actual weapon - if that floats your boat

    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Republican Party.

    by OnlyWords on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:05:05 AM PST

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    •  the man in china slashed 22 kids (0+ / 0-)

      and he has stated he was not trying to kill.

      •  How Many Of Them Died? (5+ / 0-)

        Oh, that's right - NONE OF THEM!

        Maybe you would rather be shot dead than slashed, but I would much rather take on a berserker with a knife than an AR-15...

        The weapon does matter!

        I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Republican Party.

        by OnlyWords on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:19:27 AM PST

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        •  and you find 22 knife slashed kids acceptable? (0+ / 0-)

          this argument really rubs me the wrong way.  It is not acceptable and resources should be focused on mental health resources that are going to prevent all kinds of attacks.

          •  We can multi-task - deal w/guns AND mental health. (3+ / 0-)

            Choke off the supply of military weapons.

            Medical treatment for mentally ill people.

            Why, it's like we can shore up our offense AND plot a defense at the same time.

            And if you're foaming at the mouth with fear that the Moozlim in the White House will take away yer guuuuuuns, there's the proof that you qualify for mental health care.

          •  Natural born killers (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CA wildwoman

            People kill.  Always have, always will.  

            Till we get everyone's human nature purged, we need to protect ourselves.

            Reasonable limits: Anthrax, C4, drones, anti-aircraft missiles, and atom bombs on the no-buy list.  

            N-shot clips, armor-peircing cop-killer rounds,  need to be added to that list.

            No right is absolute.  Even religon and free speech have limits.

            Barack Hussein Obama- Don't Mock the Constitution.

            by odenthal on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:57:49 PM PST

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            •  There's no effort to improve mental health service (0+ / 0-)

              show me where that is happening.

              •  You're falling for the NRA distraction. (0+ / 0-)

                Bait n switch.

                We will never fix the people.  As if the root problem is a few bad people.  Anyone can snap.  You, your family, can suddenly "not like mondays".

                Given human fragile mental health; it is prudent to limit access to lethal force.

                You have a constitutonal right to easily kill 6 people; but not 30.

                Have you noticed how NRA refer to non-members as sheeple.  As if tthey are lone wolves looking afer the rest of us.   The gunz make them fully human.

                Notice too how there is always an implied threat - they will go postal if pushed too far.  Ha Ha.

                Barack Hussein Obama- Don't Mock the Constitution.

                by odenthal on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 01:37:48 AM PST

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          •  Nice strawman that I hear a lot. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CA wildwoman

            That violent crime not involving guns doesn't bother us at all. This year a transsexual person was beaten nearly to death by hate criminals and a lesbian was beaten brutally by her SO's brother on Thanksgiving. You better believe that bothered the shit out of me.

            But there is absolutely nothing wrong with being bothered more by violent crime involving guns than other violent crime. That's because unlike with guns, with other types of violent crime you actually have a more than small chance of surviving it. Not so much when bullets blow through your body.

            Someone in a FB group I debate said "You only care about violence with guns because you have an agenda".

            You're damn right I have an agenda. That agenda is fewer deaths from violent crime.

            Yes we can address the propensity towards violence - all kinds of violence. That can include improving our mental health system, also include trying to reduce inequality, better education, etc.

            But first and foremost I want fewer people to die from gun violence. Australia figured it out. Japan figured it out. Just about all of the rest of the free world figured it out. What's our excuse?

            liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

            by RockyMtnLib on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 06:27:54 PM PST

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    •  What if Lanza made a bomb? (0+ / 0-)

      My thought is that if we don't work out the risks of mental health issues and just take away their guns, people like Lanza will resort to making bombs, which are easy to make and impossible to regulate.  We need comprehensive violence reform if anything.

      •  Because civilian-made bombs are notoriously (8+ / 0-)

        unreliable and seldom lethal. Oklahoma City was an outlier-most home-made bombs never even detonate and when they do, they usually maim rather than kill. See for example-the Unabomber. He sent out 26 bombs, and only 3 of them resulted in deaths. Not even on the radar compared to the body counts we see in our now almost daily shooting rampages.

        Similarly, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold made a ton of pipe bombs-enough to level the entire school, but only a couple of them went off and nobody was hurt by them.

        Mass murderers enjoy watching their victims die. That is their primary motive in most cases-and why guns are their weapon of choice.

        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

        by SwedishJewfish on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:45:00 AM PST

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        •  Plus the ingredients are controlled and tracked. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SwedishJewfish

          From what I understand, buying large enough quantities of certain fertilizers or other "dual use" bomb-making chemicals will set off alarm bells at DHS.  In other words, even the stuff you use to grow your tomatoes appears to be more carefully regulated than buying a few hundred rounds of .223.

        •  I'm thinking of Iraq more than Oklahoma (0+ / 0-)

          It doesn't seem that difficult for bad guys to find instructions to make IEDs online somewhere.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't work to keep guns out of the hans of bad guys.  However, we really need to address mental health issues just as much if we want to stop the violence.  It seems to me that there's a reason that school shootings are primarily carried out by middle class white males with mental health issues, and if all we do is take away their weapons they will find other methods.

      •  Not only that, but a violent mentally ill person (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        odenthal, RockyMtnLib, CA wildwoman

        may well follow the path of least resistance to commit the deed, but may well not have the patience or indeed the anger to learn how to build a bomb, go out and acquire the parts, assemble and deliver it. Or it may take so long to do so that that particular idea loses its urgency, momentum, ...

        Not all mentally ill people are mentally ill all the time. For many, the illness is triggered situationally, or comes and goes for some other reason. That's what "I'm having a good day" means.

        No. If you want to prevent more attrocities commited for high body counts with maximum fire power, the surest way is to remove the firepower.
        A) it's one of the only common elements to all such events and
        B) It's the simplest solution. Much easier than trying to figure out who is or will be capable and likely to do such things at any given moment.

        Which is more important: safe citizens, or people having their guns?
        That's what it comes down to.

        Mass shootings are still rare enough that most of us will never see one in person.
        The means to commit them are not so rare. Remove the means, decrease the shootings.

        And it may just be me, but my mind equates the dogged stubborness of our nation to allow such easy access and the reluctance of citizens to consider strict gun control with stubborn children stamping their feet when they aren't allowed to have a toy. They need to grow up and do what's best for the country.
        The NRA wouldn't like it, but f*ck the NRA.

        I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

        by Gentle Giant on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 12:03:35 PM PST

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        •  The NRA is out of the debate, IMO (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CA wildwoman

          However, if you want to pass meaningful gun control regulations, you're going to have to get a lot of people on board that simply don't trust the Democrats.  Banning guns is not politically feasible, so we have to look at what can be most effective.

          We need to focus on the "well regulated" part of the second amendment.  We need our leaders to pass laws that will keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people but be careful not to infringe on what a significant portion of the country believes is a human right whether we all agree or not or else any legislation proposed is a non-starter.  I'd like to see some progress made even if it makes the purity extremists on both sides upset.

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