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View Diary: A Reminder Of How The GOP Spent Its Last 4 Years (75 comments)

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  •  Calling (4+ / 0-)

    Independent voters clueless and lazy won't get us to listen to you.  Maybe if you had phrased it "we need Independent voters to listen to us", you might get us to align our agendas more closely with yours.

    All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

    by Noddy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 10:01:19 AM PST

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    •  We need to recognize... (19+ / 0-)

      ...that most "Independent" voters are anything but. Most Independents are so in name only; their voting history is such that they almost alwasy vote one way or the other.

      •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Buckeye Nut Schell

        Are you speaking from certain knowledge, or hearsay?

        As an Independent voter, I spend a lot of time researching and evaluating every candidate for whom I am allowed to vote, and every issue upon which I am allowed to vote. Every Independent I know does this.

        It may appear to outsiders that we "alwasy vote one way or the other", but appearances can be deceiving. In a predominantly 2 party system, often we only have an either/or choice - Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green Party, People's Party, Whatever Party - then don't we all "alwasy vote one way or the other"? It's not like we often have a third choice, let alone a fourth or fifth.

        All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

        by Noddy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 10:20:05 AM PST

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        •  He/She Is Speaking From Voluminous Research (16+ / 0-)

          The vast majority of self-described "independents" lean very strongly and consistently in one political direction.  

          •  Can we all agree . . . (14+ / 0-)

            I think we can agree that the population as a whole needs to become more aware that this country has been taken over by corporate/right wing interests over 40 years and that, in doing so, has trampled upon the interests of the middle class and, even more so, upon the working/disabled poor?

            IF - the "traditional conservative" voters could stop voting on non-government concerns like GLBT marriage, women's reproductive health, prayer in schools etc etc - none of which is really the concern of the corporatists, and these "traditional conservatives" can get "conservative" about main streets health and the "family values" of having a family that can afford a home, health care, get "conservative" about loving on another or getting concerned about retaining the social contract - - then this country would be vastly better off.

            Why don't we focus upon THAT?

            Blessed are the peacemakers, the poor, the meek and the sick. Message to Repug Fundies: "DO you really wonder "what would Jesus do?" I didn't think so.

            by 4CasandChlo on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 12:53:01 PM PST

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        •  I am a registered independent and in the past... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tuba Les, RUNDOWN, blueoasis, radarlady

          seven presidential elections I voted in, I voted for...

          an Independent, a republican andfour Domocrats Obama twice).  As far as local races, I have friends who are Republican and voted for them more than once.  I primarily vote Democratic but would drop them in a minute for a better candidate that had a different letter in front of their name.

          Just because I vote for a candidate, doesn't mean I agree with them.  More often than not, it is the lesser of two evils.  The last person I am proud to say I voted for is Ross Perot and it was because he said that if Bush or Clinton signed NAFTA, there would be a large sucking sound from all of the jobs leaving the United States.  I still believe that he was right.  

          All of NAFTA's policies didn't take effect until 2000.  How has that job market been ever since?

          "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

          by Buckeye Nut Schell on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 10:39:17 AM PST

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        •  "speaking from certain knowledge, or hearsay?" (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hillbilly Dem, RUNDOWN, elwior

          But you aren't doing that are you?

          "I'm not saying that if you have a time machine, you necessarily have to kill Hitler, but this retroactive retirement is the worst use of a time machine I have ever seen!" Jon Stewart

          by Haningchadus14 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 10:47:36 AM PST

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          •  I am speaking from (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RUNDOWN, hardhatmama

            personal experience and knowledge of the Independents in this region,how we vote, and what we see as important. Sometimes this aligns one way, and sometimes it aligns another way. If you only go by one data point, you won't understand why we have chosen to be Independents, and hostility towards us will never win us over to your viewpoint.

             

            All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

            by Noddy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:02:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Most Independents I know ... (5+ / 0-)

              aren't truly Independent, since their views easily align themselves with one party or the other. They just don't want to admit to themselves or others that they have a party preference, and so will occasionally vote for the other party, just to prove their Independence.

              •  i'm an independent and i'm proud to admit that (7+ / 0-)

                i've never voted for a republican and never will...neither will i ever join a political party that is ok with putting joe lieberman in the white house

                Coming Attraction: "Tea Party II - now with more stupid!"

                by memofromturner on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:17:26 AM PST

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              •  Some, not most, Independents do (3+ / 0-)

                have a party preference, and sometimes it appears as if we have a party preference because one party or the other more closely aligns with our individual political beliefs.  As I said, appearances can be deceiving. We Independents resist the concept of a 2 party system because it limits choices, limits actions, limits solutions. We don't vote for the other party "just to prove" our Independence, we vote for other parties because they align with our issues and are sometimes a step in the direction we want things to go.

                Appearances aren't always the reality.

                All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

                by Noddy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:26:00 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  what I hear from all of this is that the media's (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RUNDOWN, blueoasis, Noddy, elwior

                  version of an 'independent'; someone who thinks both parties have it half right and splits tickets exactly down the middle, is bull pucky.

                  Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything - Malcolm X via Skindred

                  by kamarvt on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 02:55:03 PM PST

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                  •  True. I don't think both parties (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kamarvt, Marko the Werelynx

                    have it half right.  On some issues, one party is more aligned with our stand on issues, and the other party sometimes matches up closer.  When neither major party aligns too closely, being Independent gives us the freedom to select the one that comes closest or vote for a third party, if that third party comes close.  We don't feel obligated to support a party simply because we belong to it or our parents belonged to it.  I've never voted a straight party ticket.

                    One thing many Independents I know want to do is break the 2 party system up  to open politics up a little more, give us better representation and choices, and allow better people to run for and be hired (voted) in to office.

                    We think a three or multi-party system would ultimately give us greater control over our elected employees.

                    But rather than asking us, we get told we don't "pay attention" and are "lazy", and won't admit we really belong to one of the major parties.

                    I don't expect the media to get it right.

                    All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

                    by Noddy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 05:28:00 PM PST

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      •  Independent, yet "dependent" on a bad system. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior

        Of the "independents" I know, there seems to be a few standard types.

        Libertarians for the most part, anti corporate, anti Wall Street, pro labor (solidarity), but beholden to various conservative values.

        Averse to the "two party" domination of government.

        And tired of too many candidates that are carbon copies of one another - regardless of party affiliation.

        If not us ... who? If not here ... where? If not now ... when?

        by RUNDOWN on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 01:02:10 PM PST

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      •  Embarassed republicans (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis, elwior, flowerfarmer, Miggles

        Most of my republican friends are so embarassed by their party that they now claim to be "independient."

        Who knows, they may someday vote democrat.

        "Humankind cannot bear very much reality." - T.S. Eliot

        by fixxit on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 03:06:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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