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View Diary: Achieving Gun Control in the USA (93 comments)

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  •  88kathy: that's a ban (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    deedogg, PavePusher, gerrilea, annecros

    by another name.

    Um, excuse me: "be responsible for the guns you fail to keep"?

    How in the name of the seven bald steers do you propose to defend that from a legal challenge?

    LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

    by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:03:13 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Did you read my petiiton? (0+ / 0-)

      I am sure there are ways to word it.  Listen BS1, I don't think I have all the answers.  But beefing up the keep regulations would be an excellent way to go in my opinion.

      So your gun was used in a felony.  That means you are an accessory.  It says right in the Constitution that you 'keep' the arms.  You failed to keep the arms.  No amnesty for you.

      Don't come crying to me and say the bad guys took your gun.  You are supposed to keep your gun.  

      •  So, because, say, I live in a trailer house (6+ / 0-)

        or apartment complex with a no-altering-the-structure lease, I'm SOL to keep a firearm at home?

        Even the 2d Continental Congress didn't go there. Just said what arms a militia member (and the registration was by militia member, not firearm) had to have, and forbade selling same or having them confiscated for debts including taxes.

        So not being able to guarantee a theft-proof storage seems a little like an infringement.

        Specifically aimed at those of lower incomes / in poorer neighborhoods.

        Now that seems more than slightly discriminatory....

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:39:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yep. Sorry. Why should I (society) be endangered (0+ / 0-)

          because keeping a fire arm is too hard?

          Sounds like the 2nd CC also was interested in the arms bearer actually keeping the arm.

          •  Hmmm. Can't go with ya on that (7+ / 0-)

            as I know several people who are actual members of the US Armed Forces right now living in those conditions.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:04:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So they bring me in on their hobby. I have to (0+ / 0-)

              just watch out if the bad guys take their gun and come after me.  Too bad so sad. Keeping guns is too hard for the gun owners.  Oopsie the bad guys took my gun.  

              If you are so concerned, you could start a lock and key business that could store guns to a level that would give the owners less liability.   It will never be perfect safety for those who choose to bear arms.  But the hammer should come down on them not me (society).

              Just because society has always picked up the pieces when it has been too hard to keep guns, doesn't mean it should.  

              Talk about entitlement.

              •  So the fix is to eliminate substandard pay (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea, PavePusher, 43north, annecros

                and housing.

                Cool. When do we start?

                LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:32:58 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  2 different issues. And yes substandard pay and (0+ / 0-)

                  housing are wrong.  I don't know what you want to do about it.

                  But in the meantime guns need to be kept.  Serious business.  And I have a link in my sig line outlining what I want to do about that.

                  •  So I went & got it to copy here so (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gerrilea, PavePusher, 43north, 88kathy

                    we could get more eyes on it.

                    Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment.

                    The Charlton Heston level of gun possession. You can bear any arm but you must KEEP that arm. The gun must be in your hand or

                    - Felony to fail to secure your deadly weapons.

                    - An accessory charge if your weapon was used in a crime.

                    - Possession of a gun w/o a serial # - intent to murder.

                    And if your weapon was used in a crime and you died trying to KEEP it, your estate would be liable for all damages your weapon caused while not in your possession.

                    Gun control responsibility back to the gun owners, where it belongs.

                    You must physically prove continuity of possession every 5 years. If you cannot physically present the actual gun for continuity of possession, you are charged with felony-failure to secure a deadly weapon.

                    God I hope other people can see the beauty of this

                    LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                    by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:52:26 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  How many should be allowed to be bought, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          43north, Joy of Fishes

          black market sold, and report stolen before the police report becomes prima facie evidence of an offense?

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:18:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I've posted several times here... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KenBee, annecros

        about the gun I left in a locked steel box, cabled to the seat frame of my truck, truck locked, all to avoid taking it into a bar here where it's actually legal.  And it got stolen.

        I did this to please people like you.

        And now you want to punish me for doing what you wanted.

        Think about how fucking pissed that makes me.

        If you want to enact a law anything like that, you will have to compromise.  You will have to accept me taking my sidearm everywhere, so that I will have control over it at all times.  Otherwise, no deal, because you ask for the impossible.  On purpose, I suspect.

        But that sidearm on my belt is a fuckload safer than the one the theif now has.  Deal with that.

        •  Exactly, now turn them in. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PavePusher, annecros
          Otherwise, no deal, because you ask for the impossible.  On purpose, I suspect.
          88kathy has, along with other bloggers, determined that there are no really-really responsible adults in the room other-than those without firearms.  
          You can't, in the face of an assault by the Zetas, insure that even upon death, your gun doesn't leave your hands.  Therefore KEEP = FAIL.
          100% chance, all the time.

          Live 90 years and die, and we have to deal with your fucktard son getting ahold of your gun?  KEEP = FAIL. 100% chance, all the time.

          So find a responsible adult, and hand them your guns.
          As you seem incompetent to do so,
          that responsible adult will surrender your firearms to the government for destruction or re-use as the Government deems fit.

          That's my synopsis.

          •  Welded to the frame of the truck might have worked (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            annecros

            cabled did not work and is not prudent care for a deadly weapon.

            Carrying it would probably be as successful as the cable idea.

            Why do I have to take responsibility for these failed methods of securing guns?

            Oh yeah, fuck.

            •  BEAR (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PavePusher
              Carrying it would probably be as successful as the cable idea.
              •  I mean the bad guys would probaby take it away (0+ / 0-)

                from him carrying it easier that getting in his truck.  The guy has a weak hand to bear.

                •  Really? Explain how this would happen... (0+ / 0-)

                  since it would have to be concealed to carry in a bar here in Arizona.

                  Come now, we await being overawed by the magnificent munificence of your arrogant ignorance.

                  •  You tied your gun up like it was a bicycle. (0+ / 0-)

                    I probably have a better lock on my bicycle. You put your gun in a box and then used cables to hold it in your truck.  Now where is it?  What if it kills some one because you didn't secure it?

                    Don't get mad.  Keep your gun.  I mean keep it.  Don't let it out of your sight.  It can hurt people if the wrong person gets it.

                    It is a gun.

                    •  Steel box. Steel cable. Steel seat frame. (0+ / 0-)

                      Locked truck.  Smashed window in a monsoon storm.  

                      Cable was ripped out of steel box.  This is not complicated, but does take considerable force and some effort.  Hard to do on a single yank.

                      Had I worn the gun in my retention holster, it would have been, empirically, safer.

                      You do not get to label me a criminal for complying with your wishes.  

                      You do not get to call me negligent for complying with your requirements.

                      You do not get to harrass me for being a responsible, lawful Citizen.

                      Your ignorance means nothing to me, except as proof of your intentional harrasment.  

                      We're done here.  I offer you an invitation to the world.

                      •  Where is you gun? (0+ / 0-)
                        •  Good night, Gracie.... (0+ / 0-)

                          ((youtube egX9N8yOgaU))

                          http://www.youtube.com/...

                          •  You never ever ever get the last word with a (0+ / 0-)

                            RBAer.

                          •  Over a decade ago (0+ / 0-)

                            my mother died of cancer.  You, 88kathy, remind me a great deal of the police that day.
                            As a physician-attended death, there was no call to the medical examiner.
                            As a cancer patient in hospice care, she was prescribed Schedule I narcotics.
                            Upon her death, I contacted the pharmacy to return them.
                            "Against Federal Law, can't do it."
                            I contacted the local Police:

                            Are you prescribed the pills you reference?
                            No.

                            That's a felony.
                            That's why I'm calling.  I want to know of you'll take them.

                            If an officer responds, he'll make a Felony arrest for possession of a salable amount of a Schedule I narcotic, and you'll face 25 years in Federal or State pen.
                            How can I dispose of them?  Can I flush them down the drain?

                            (pause - muted talking)
                            That's a Federal crime, as the treated waste water flows into a "Prime Wetlands" designated estuary.

                            Can I dispose of them in the trash?

                            Knowingly giving-away, or recklessly leaving, a Schedule I narcotic where it can be encountered by others is no less a crime than Sales.
                            So what am I to do with these pills?

                            If I send an officer out, we will be making an arrest.
                            There's a valid prescription.

                            Let me speak to the person who holds the valid prescription.
                            She's dead, as-of a hour ago.  Enroute to the funeral home.

                            So you're in possession of a Schedule I narcotic, taken from a person for whom they were prescribed?  I'm sending cars now.
                            They arrived, no warrant, and my father refused the officer's request for entry, calling them fucking assholes.  They took him into custody, disorderly conduct.  
                            I filed a burning permit 20 minutes later, and picked him up when he called from the PD, after being lectured not to yell at cops, regardless of his personal circumstances.

                            The narcotics were a non-issue, not in the waste stream, nor in the water, and the brush pile was gone.

                          •  2 different issues. Sorry for your mom, she had a (0+ / 0-)

                            good son.

                            And, yes, I won't let butterfingers holding the power of death rest.   All I ask is they keep their guns.  That turns out to be hard.  The butterfingers defense as seen on TV, is something they hate to give up.

                          •  I thought about this some more, you tried to turn (0+ / 0-)

                            the unused narcotics in to a hazardous waste disposal location.  Nobody has ever done that before.  The police didn't know how to handle it.

                            Yes I am very single minded with my interpretation of KEEP.  You see all the gun owners are scared Obama is going to take their guns.  I am scared the gun owners will let their guns fall into the wrong hands and someone will get hurt.

                            Before Sandy Hook, you weren't responsible for your gun any more than you wanted to be.  I propose that in this new day you keep your gun under stringent requirements and be held responsible if your gun for any reason falls into the wrong hands.  I don't know why RkBA's find it so difficult to stand up and keep their arms.  

                            Why come whining to me, 'a bad guy took my gun, silly me, oh, and if someone gets hurt its not my fault cause I don't have it any more'

        •  Dear pave pusher its hard to control your side arm (0+ / 0-)

          But in my ideal world you are still responsible for the one that got taken.

          Maybe the box should have been welded to the frame?  Cabled?  That didn't work out so good.  And now where is you gun?  Should you get amnesty because you underestimated the bad guys?

          I think your idea that carrying it would probably be as successful as your cable idea.  Not so much.

          •  And maybe you missed the point.... (0+ / 0-)

            and should attempt aerial fornication with a rotationally transiting toroidal pastry.

            It's quite obvious that you are both ignorant and arrogant, and proud of the combination.

            Pound sand.

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