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  •  Imagination is a wonderful thing. (5+ / 0-)

    There is a difference between fantasy and reality. Fantasy often seems more attractive. Reality, however, eventually bites, so it's helpful to know the difference between the two.

    It's rather like the Republicans denying science. They can deny climate change, for example, all they want. The climate doesn't care what they think.

    By all means, enjoy the fantasy. Nothing wrong with enjoying the fantasy unless you start letting it guide your life.

    Enjoy the San Diego Zoo's panda cam! Now with new baby panda! And support Bat World Sanctuary

    by Fonsia on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:28:21 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  i am in no place to question someone else's (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bkamr, The Marti

      reality.  How can I know?  Absence of evidence, and all....

      •  I have an internet friend who writes (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis, Wee Mama, corvo, Smoh

        ghosthunting video games. He believes in that stuff completely.

        I don't care if he's crazy. He writes fantastic games!

        Enjoy the San Diego Zoo's panda cam! Now with new baby panda! And support Bat World Sanctuary

        by Fonsia on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:59:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  "Extraordinary claims require (11+ / 0-)

        extraordinary evidence" works a lot better for me

        •  Actually that old maxim that Sagan loved (0+ / 0-)

          is, on the face of it, complete nonsense.  Moving the goalposts because of preconceived notions is anti-scientific.  Evidence is what it is.  There are no "extraordinary claims" when it comes to investigating what it means to be alive.

      •  I'm sure you say that when people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Smoh, tommymet

        bring up global warming, or when birthers start talking about Obama's birth certificate.  I'm betting you lose you relativistic nonsense real quick then.

        The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

        by AoT on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 08:40:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  making stuff up for the purposes of character (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Neuroptimalian

          assassination and superstition are not the same thing.

          •  Seriously? Making things up for the purposes (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tommymet, corvo

            of superstition is different than talking about near death experiences how?  And there are a hell of a lot of people who truly believe that Obama was born in another country.  And there's plenty of people who truly and honestly believe that black people are genuinely dumber than white people.  That's their reality.  Of course, you reject that, mostly because it's completely absurd, but also because you disagree with it and so it suddenly isn't one of those acceptable realities.  

            The point being that once you decide that some realities are acceptable and other not you open the door to saying anything is just another persons reality, and then we have a bunch of nonsense like anti-vaxxers and birthers.

            The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

            by AoT on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:10:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  because when you can SEE people making things (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SoCalSal, Neuroptimalian

              up, and you can see the nefarious purposes as to why, then you can say 'Hey--people who buy into this nonsense--you're morons and here's why'.  Plus, they're buying into what others tell them.  AHA! you might say--'But isn't that exactly what organized religion is?  Buying into other's mythology'?  Well, yes.  

              But we're not talking about organized religion--we're talking about someone's subjective experience which we really know nothing about.  So we can't really say what did or did not  happen. Now, if a cult of Alexander were to arise--we could say--as we do with fundamentalists, 'I can't believe you're basing your entire reality over what this Alexander guy told you.  You're nothing but a wacky cult'.

              But we can say much less about Alexander's reality itself and what that actually means.

              Does that make sense?

              •  I see what you're saying (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                corvo

                but I still disagree with it.  Saying that a belief in some reality is bad once a bunch of people believe it doesn't make sense either.  And honestly, I don't care what you believe, what anyone believes really.  I care what people do, and what organizations do.  I don't need to hear the reasons for that unless they make me realize what I'm doing is messed up in some way, and talk of personal realities screws that sort of thing up completely in my mind.

                The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                by AoT on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 10:43:52 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  that was sort of (but not exactly) my point... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SoCalSal

                  If someone tells me he had a vision--well, fine, he had a vision.  I can't really judge--I'm not in his head.  I also can't judge whether it was a normal cognitive thing or something from some other realm of existence I'm not aware of.  Hence agnosticism in my case.  I mentioned my friend who believes in ghosts.  I don't believe she lies about these things.  What exactly it IS that she experiences--and where it comes from--and if it's solely a product of her mind (she's sane but spiritual individual) I can't say.  Somehow the stories are compelling enough that just writing it off as a bullshit hallucination don't quite do the trick--although i don't believe that she sees ghosts.

                  Now, if there were to be a group of followers around that belief, and those followers ostracize, intimidate or oppress others--I would find great fault with those people.  Because they act on beliefs that aren't their own, and use these beliefs to do harmful things.  

                  So in a sense we're in agreement about the thoughts/beliefs vs. the actions...

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