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View Diary: Fiscal cliff discussions break down after Republicans demand Social Security cuts (249 comments)

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  •  The Social Security and Medicare cuts are coming (13+ / 0-)

    during the debt ceiling business.

    Graham has said so openly.  He's already laid out what Republicans are going to push for:

    Chained CPI

    Raising the retirement/eligibility age

    Means testing

    They're "generously" leaving out privatizing both Social Security and Medicare.

    For now.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 01:54:03 PM PST

    •  And then they'll be hit with a... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zenbassoon, DRo, zaka1, PorridgeGun, qofdisks

      ...14th Amendment (section 4) challenge:

      "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."
    •  You must have seen Fox News, too. But you failed (7+ / 0-)

      to mention that so-called "liberal" Dianne Feinstein whole-hearedly agreed with him.  Here's the transcript:

      Graham:  . . . So, here's what I would like -- meaningful entitlement reform, not to turn Social Security into private accounts, not to take a voucher approach to Medicare. Adjust the age for Social Security, CPI changes and means testing, and look beyond the 10-year window.

      I cannot in good conscience raise the debt ceiling without addressing the long term debt problems of this country and I will not.

      WALLACE: And, Senator Feinstein, you heard President Obama say we've got to get out of the habit. We're not going to start trading debt ceiling increases for spending cuts.

      FEINSTEIN: Well, I think the key to what he is saying is that you don't affect people at this time --

      GRAHAM: Right.

      FEINSTEIN: -- who are on these programs.  

      GRAHAM: Right.

      Dick Durbin also expressed his support for entitlement reform "a la Bowles-Simpson's The Moment Of Truth."

      I agree.  Draconian cuts are on the way.  

      Saw former Governor Rendell [on CNBC] say that the Dems would basically "do the cuts" at one fell sweep, since they couldn't go to the base with this, more than once.  Rendell is a co-chair of the coporatist "Fix The Debt Campaigan."  

      Guess he was right.

      •  Is Sen. Graham's pension in peril? Probably not. & (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RainyDay

        besides I suspect he has amassed plenty over the years from special interests.

        If you want to sue me, Graham, go for it.

        Fiscal conservative: a Republican ready to spend $5 to save a dime--especially if that dime is helping a non-donor.

        by Mayfly on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 02:12:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry. Another "typo." Should read (0+ / 0-)

        "whole-heartedly."

      •  For clarification to a commenter, I should add the (0+ / 0-)

        rest of Senator Feinstein's comments which clearly show that she agreed with Senator Graham.

        Here's the continuation of their conversation:

        FEINSTEIN: That you do it in a way that it is way in the future so that long term, the programs are essentially changed and more constricted. Now, that's not entirely popular on my side. But, it's realistic, I think.

        I think, you know, this is a very hard time for people.

        GRAHAM: Yes.

        FEINSTEIN: And, we need to get by this and have a robust economy again, and it can happen, I'm convinced. If we solve this and move down, you can do those things that enable the programs to be solvent on an extended basis, without impacting people directly now.

        Now, Feinstein doesn't add the usual Republican statement that they would exclude seniors age 55 and older (neither did Graham).  

        But when you read The Moment of Truth, you'll see that President Obama's Commission did not exempt this age group.

        As I already mentioned earlier, "means-testing" is slated to begin in 2017.  Clearly, that does not exempt very many seniors under the age of 65.  [Some of the proposals written stating that those individuals retiring AFTER January 1, 1951.]

        Basically, that would mean all but the "Boomers"  born in the first five years of that age cohort would be included.

        IOW, ONLY approximately 27-28% of the "Baby Boom" generation will be spared two of the three draconian cuts.
        Remember:  Chained (Superlative) CPI will apply to current and future retirees.
        This should clarify Feinstein's agreement with Graham.

        Here's thelink to The Moment of Truth.

        Here's the link to the Fox News Sunday transcript.l

    •  Followed by Dem losses in the midterms (6+ / 0-)

      When 88% of Americans oppose these cuts, they will blame the Dems for going along with it.

      Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

      by Betty Pinson on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 02:02:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, never the GOP for forcing it though. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zenbassoon

        Voters get what they deserve.  

        The NRA is the Gun Manufacturer Lobby. Nothing more. Their pontification about the second amendment is nothing more than their ad jingle. They're the domestic version of the Military Industrial Complex.

        by Jacoby Jonze on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 02:07:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I don't know how they plan to sell that... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zenbassoon

      Given they can raise the ceiling with a simple and clean vote to do so.  The problem is I think it has enough support in the Senate to get 51 votes, so it would be on the shoulders of the President to veto it and crash the economy, or veto it and try the end around and end up impeached.  

      The NRA is the Gun Manufacturer Lobby. Nothing more. Their pontification about the second amendment is nothing more than their ad jingle. They're the domestic version of the Military Industrial Complex.

      by Jacoby Jonze on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 02:05:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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