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View Diary: Fiscal cliff discussions break down after Republicans demand Social Security cuts (249 comments)

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  •  Goodbye Dem victories in 2014 (13+ / 0-)

    The GOP is leading Obama and Reid down the primrose path on chained CPI - making Dems take the blame when cuts are agreed upon.

    Dems will get all the blame for this mess.  Why can't they figure that out?

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 01:59:08 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  What I can't understand is why they don't (9+ / 0-)

      counter with means testing and removal of the cap.  We have been cutting things for 12 years and now it is time to raise revenue.  We have the lowest revenue coming into the government in 60 years.  It is ridiculous.  

      •  NO! to means testing (12+ / 0-)

        Why do people keep bringing that up?

        That leads to the nightmare that poor people have to deal with on a regular basis with Medicaid, SSI, and other social programs. Lots of forms with threats on them of fines and jailing if you don't do it right.

        Why do you think so many don't apply for those social programs, even if they are dying?

        Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 02:19:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly right (4+ / 0-)

          Why should we have to go through a demeaning and nasty process in order to prove we are entitled to SS.  It would turn it into a welfare program and that's way different from what it has always been thought to be. Why, why, why???  It's perverse and the Dems should be running like hell in the other direction because it will come back to bite them hard in the end.

          "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~ George Carlin

          by vigilant meerkat on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 05:49:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Means testing will be enacted in the next round. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        qofdisks, RUNDOWN, vigilant meerkat

        Problem is, it does not apply to "the wealthy," but to working and middle class folks, as well.

        Read The Moment of Truth.  Here's the link.

        •  Depends on what they call means.....if it is (0+ / 0-)

          income generated during retirement than the poor and middle class should be fine, even at it's peak, SS replaces no more than 25% of income.  

          •  "Means Testing" is the same as progressive price (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vigilant meerkat, glitterscale

            indexing.

            Read The Moment of Truth.  Here's the link.  

            Please Read Pages 49-50 of the Bowles-Simpson recommendations.  This cut is proposed to begin in 2017.
            There are actual formula "bend points" which determine how much beneficiaries' monthly benefit checks are.  These bend points will be changed to "decrease" the benefit.

            This proposal explains this, and includes a chart of the change in bend points, as well.

            It is a MAJOR cut.  Greater than the Chained, or Superlative CPI.  It rivals the approximate 14% cut that raising the full retirement age (FRA) by two (2) years, imposes.
            And, they begin the decrease at just above $9,000 ANNUAL INCOME.  Real wealthy, huh?

            But the percentage of cut really picks up at the working, or lower-middle class income level.

            Notice, how the press always parses their words.  They say either "higher income" or "wealthier"--NOT wealthy.  And I guess they can get away with it, because no one every asks "at what income level does means-testing begin?"

            Please folks, read up on it.  

            Too many people are unconcerned (I suspect) because they assume that it won't apply to them.  Most of them will be wrong, if they assume that.
            •  That is not means testing that is breaking the (0+ / 0-)

              social contract, they are not the same thing.

              •  Well, to each their own. Certainly I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

                I consider "means-testing" to be a major breach of the social contract.  

                I have no recollection personally of ever having been told that I would forfeit a sizeable amount of my monthly benefit due to deficit reduction, or the fact that politicians have decided to no longer honor the social contract, as extended to previous generations.  Especially after having (like millions and millions of other Americans) my payroll taxes doubled in approximately 1983.  

                But, it's good to see someone that's happy with it, since my reading of The Moment of Truth has me prepared to see "Means-Testing" implemented sometime in the relatively near future.

    •  Spot on. If (or When) President Obama signs (4+ / 0-)

      cuts into law, he and the Democratic Party will "own them."

      I believe that they must think that "the base" is so dense, that they can get away with this, with "the right messaging."  

      Otherwise, I cannot fathom that they would even consider doing this.  

      We must raise our voices, NOW.  And not let up for weeks, until all of this "BS" is resolved.

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