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View Diary: Sales of guns and ammunition surge to record levels with assault weapons sold out in many areas (262 comments)

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  •  Don't underestimate how deeply (14+ / 0-)

    people will misinterpret the desire from reasonable gun owners to increase some restrictions on guns to full-blown, hyperreactive hysteria. And don't underestimate how those same people will interpret any full-throated call for major, Australia-style reform which we, on the Left, seem to toss about casually without always thinking about the impact of our rhetoric potentially worsening matters.

    Tipped and Rec'd.

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 12:26:25 PM PST

    •  Indeed...many gun owners are fearful... (8+ / 0-)

      ...and with all due respect to my progressive brothers and sisters, sometimes our rhetoric and overreaching policy statements can give them cause to worry. I wish we would reach out to them with a sense of compassion and humanity instead of emotionally blasting the tools of aggression used to commit these terrible acts of terror.

      There is a reasonable middle ground to be reached where gun control is concerned...and that includes millions of gun owners and the policy makers who represent them. Perhaps that is where this battle is best fought...and won.

      •  call me pessimistic but I don't see (6+ / 0-)

        the middle ground you do.

        One side thinks that there should be absolutely no assault weapons available to the general public for purchase, the other side thinks that people should be able to buy assault weapons.

        Where is the middle?

        •  Pessimist! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ER Doc

          ;)

          I do see a middle ground personally, but I have a head full of hair dye and have to go wash it out so can't detail. Another time! I swear I see a middle ground, however. Scout's.

          Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

          by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 12:56:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Here in Indiana, the middle is ENORMOUS... (0+ / 0-)

          We just elected Joe Donnelly because we don't like extremists. Don't think for a minute that gun owners here aren't just as reasonable.

          •  no values judgement here. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sychotic1

            I am a notorious fence sitter around here so I am not taking one side or another.

            Its just difficult for me to "see" a middle when both positions are, in essence, absolute. No assault weapons vs assault weapons legal and available to purchase...how do you find a middle ground in that?

            •  I think most gun owners have no problem with... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lyvwyr101

              an assault weapon ban. But what needs to be said along with such a proposal is the following:

              We have absolutely NO desire to take away your ability to defend yourselves, your property and your families by seeking this ban. This is not the slippery slope. We simply seek to remove a dangerous threat that does not further the cause of safety and security, but instead promulgates destructive violence directed at the innocent among us.
              If policy makers framed their arguments in such a fashion, they might be surprised who would follow :)
              •  I don't think a statement is going to fix (0+ / 0-)

                the fear though.

                pessimist in me, I suppose.

              •  The previous ban (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                annieli, scottdc

                was enforced on HOW THE RIFLE LOOKS.  The same rifles were sold a bit later, with the "ugly", assault looking stuff removed.  The action of the rifle was exactly the same as before the ban.  All semi-autos, from the little .22 Long Rifle Remington built in 1920 to the old M-1 Garand that was the WWII service rifle, to the AR15 all work the same way--they just look different and shoot different caliber bullets.  (The M1 shoots 30-06, the most popular hunting cartridge in the U.S., its successor, the M14 also shoots 30 cal--7.62 NATO which is the civilian .308, the AR15 and M16 shoot 5.56 NATO, which is the civilian .223).

                Again, for you city kids:

                The rifles all work the same way, they only look different, and in some instances shoot different diameter bullets.

              •  I hear ya, but: (0+ / 0-)

                No amount of words can assuage paranoia, and that's what we're dealing with.  When you try to pacify a paranoiac, they just include you in the conspiracy.

                I don't mean a healthy suspicion of the slippery slope,  but outright paranoia.  When you think of how many people are convinced that ACORN just stole this election for a Kenyan Communist/Nazi... there are some freakin' delusional people out there.  These people are absolutely paranoid, and nothing will change that except themselves.  Or their natural death.

                I think where a lot of the fights here at dkos come from is that the extreme right has hijacked the discussion so much, that we're mired in this trap of back-and-forth talking points that feed the paranoia of those who've got it.  

                Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

                by nominalize on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 10:34:31 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Because (0+ / 0-)

              both sides are using the term "assault weapon" with entirely different things in mind.

            •  It's the extremists who are visible (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nominalize

              Saying "both positions" implies there are only two positions.

              Throwing out some examples, not to advocate them, but to prove it's possible to come up with compromises:
              - High capacity one shot per trigger pull weapons available only to people who can prove they're hunting dangerous big game
              - Such weapons available, but heavily taxed
              - Such weapons available, but subject to safe storage laws
              - Such weapons available, but required to be fitted with a non-removable RFID tag that can trip a detector at a school door or in a squad car (this one wouldn't work but it's an example of a middle position).
              - Such weapons available but must be stored at the range

              •  a small semantic correction (0+ / 0-)

                You make a great observation.  But the linguist in me would like to point out a detail: "Both positions" doesn't imply there are only two positions, it presupposes (i.e., takes for given) there are only two.  That is, the expression doesn't even make sense unless there are two and only two.  Presupposition is much stronger than implication, and that makes the "both sides/both positions" phrase especially insidious.

                Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

                by nominalize on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 10:37:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Cause to worry (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lyvwyr101

        about what??  

        Not about innocent lives, apparently.  

        Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

        by Mark Mywurtz on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 01:34:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Fear causes black and white thinking (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nominalize

        Un-frightened people can turn on the analytical parts of their brains and see zillions of options between the extremes of Somalia and Japan.

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