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View Diary: Actually read the documents released by the FBI about OWS (319 comments)

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  •  No man, the 100,000 marched through (1+ / 0-)
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    bronte17

    kept the secret, and on orders. They saw the blast, they marched through, they kept the secret. So 100,000+ x-hierarchy. That's the point to take.

    Look, all of political history is nothing but the result of men (mostly) gathering to conspire.

    There has not been a year in American history since the Pinkertons were hired to suppress labor, and officials brought out troops to the same end, where the powers that be haven't actively and consciously sought to suppress popular movements. It's lunacy to claim otherwise.

    What you'd have to explain is why that tendency would suddenly disappear right before the Occupy suppressions of last year. About the time the FBI & DHS coordinated meetings with the mayors and police.

    If you can't do that, that's where you lose credibility.


    The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

    by Jim P on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:18:07 AM PST

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    •  Do you have a source for that? (0+ / 0-)

      Because I've been unable to find anything to substantiate the claim that 100,000 men were marched through a blast site at one time, or as part of one operation/program.

      As for your claim that

      There has not been a year in American history since the Pinkertons were hired to suppress labor, and officials brought out troops to the same end, where the powers that be haven't actively and consciously sought to suppress popular movements. It's lunacy to claim otherwise.
      I think we are going to continue to disagree here. Other than the documented cases of this happening -- and I acknowledge that there are many --  I don't see evidence of a coordinated, ongoing, and sub rosa effort to bring Federal forces to bear against popular movements.

      To me, this is significant, because the fact is that we have had popular movements in this country that have succeeded -- or at least, were not crushed by any obvious Federal government involvement. Put another way, if the Federal government were so determined, it would have had the power to stop the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War-era peace movement in its tracks. Yet, even though there were powerful individuals in the government who were opposed to these movements (most notoriously, J. Edgar Hoover), the movements happened. They even accomplished some of their goals. The Civil Rights movement even gained support -- belatedly, reluctantly, but real support -- from the federal government. It's hard for me to reconcile this with the model of an (apparently) powerful conspiracy in the federal government to suppress all popular uprisings.

      It seems to me that a more realistic picture says that there have been, and possibly always will be, powerful people in the federal government who will oppose popular movements; but there are other forces -- some political, some legal, some bureaucratic, some pragmatic, some occasionally even virtuous -- that tend to resist that abuse of power.

      In other words, I don't see a bipolar struggle of Manichean forces in which one side or the other must come out ahead. I see a complex interplay in which Manichean evil entities are usually not directly wielding power, although they may do so from time to time and place to place. Hence to say that at a given time and place the forces of evil must have been in charge, simply because they could have been -- well, for me that strains credulity.

      I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong. But I've found that historical events are rarely so simple.

      Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

      by Nowhere Man on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:52:49 AM PST

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