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View Diary: A New Assault Weapons Ban (73 comments)

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  •  Thanks for the rec (2+ / 0-)

    but I gotta disagree.  The key element is that rate of fire is not determined by engineering, its determined by average shooters on a range with several hours of experience with the weapon.  This prevents gaming the law, unlike the 1994 law which was easily gamed.

    I have shot, and watched enough people shoot, a bolt action rifle with a magazine to know that they don't reload fast (usually).  They need two hands to do it, they need to lower the weapon, if not completely let go, invert it, and work the magazine mechanism.  6-8 shots per minute is not unreasonable for an average shooter.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 02:49:44 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Any rule-based system is gameable (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WillR

      Examples:
      1) The energy of a gun and thus its score is determined by two things, the energy of the cartridge and the length of the barrel. A short barrel gives less complete combustion of the propellant and thus less muzzle energy.

      So, a cartridge legal to use in a short-barreled rifle can be used in a longer-barreled one to exceed your limits. It would not be the gun manufacturer's fault that the end user violated the manufacturer's guidelines. Similarly, a manufacturer could lowball the "recommended cartridge" for a weapon and thus be blameless if someone uses something more powerful.

      2) A manufacturer can make a very short-barreled rifle with a shoulder stock, and someone else can make a pistol grip to fit that weapon. Remove one, attach the other. Instant pistol that exceeds the limits that exceeds the limits for pistols. Again, not the manufacturer's fault.

      3) A weapon could be designed to accept multiple clips. A pistol that might only be legal with a 6 round removable magazine could use the same physical geometry as a 20 round one for a carbine or a rifle that is allowed such because of a higher limit for rifles.

      4) Innovative third-party products. Speed-loaders for revolvers are an example. The gun manufacturer has no control over this and thus does not have to factor it in, but it nonetheless allows a weapon to exceed its limits.

      5) Who determines an "average shooter"? Both gun-control advocates and gun manufacturers have a vested interest in defining this a particular way. The "average shooter" has to be mechanical rather than human, otherwise changes in your shooter population could retroactively make a weapon illegal. And individual guns even within a type will have different rates of fire, so you cannot have an accurate default rate of fire for a class of weapons. Every weapon would have to be tested.

      These are just off the top of my head. Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity to stay within but thwart the intent of rule-based systems when there is profit to be made by doing so. Banking regulations would be a sad but true example.

      •  all rule based systems are gameable (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite

        but some are more gameable that others.  Engineering solutions are easily gamed by engineering workarounds.

        Here's my analogy.  Say we wanted to limit all cars to 85 mph max.  Would we ban large engines, cause that would make trucks hard to move.  Would we make a complex law that bans all sorts of detailed elements in car design.  No, just make the law it can't go faster than 85 mph...take new cars to the track and test 'em.

        To be clear, i don't care about grips and the like.

        As for the rest, pray that the cops never see it...cause if you are caught with a weapon that has more than 25,000, you'll be doing jail time.

        As for average shooter, yup, that's gonna be litigated up the wazoo.  But we have similar stuff all over the legal code, not least of which community standards in free speech codes.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 03:40:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Then you'll see a resurgence of clip-loaded rifles (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Otteray Scribe, rockhound

      such as Enfield, Mauser, Springfield, Mosin, Garand and SKS designs.

      stripper clips

      en-bloc clips

      Enfield "mad minute"

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