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  •  2% of Americans make more than $250k (19+ / 0-)

    2%.
    So somehow those in between 250 and 400 or 500k are now middle class?
    That's a load of crap.
    And if you live in some place where you "just can't make it" on 250k, you either have some really expensive habits, or you need to move. People move for economic reasons all the time. If you've spent your whole life in the penthouse, maybe you should see what the outside world is like.
    You know, see what it's like for 98% of Americans.

    Everybody got to elevate from the norm....

    by Icicle68 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:51:34 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  No. 1: talking about $250K net not $500K (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1

      $400-500K take home is a lot of money.

      As for $250K....Say it's a single mom, a lawyer or some other professional maybe, with two kids, perhaps they bought a two bedroom house in 2007 or 2008. In my old city, that's $735K in a middle class neighborhood.  Suppose one kid is sick or uninsurable. Suppose what you do for a living is regional (i.e., you would have a hard time doing it elsewhere because of licensing, etc.).

      Suppose it's a couple and one can't find work and stays home with the kids. Or suppose you have an elderly parent in the same city that doesn't want to uproot or wouldn't be able to sell his or her house.

      Add in state taxes, medical expenses, student loans, food, clothing, tuition, car payments, car insurance, childcare and you can begin to see that $250K isn't what people think it is.  Just run the numbers.

      BagNewsNotes: Visual Politics, Media Image Analysis

      by ksh01 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:18:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Those same situations apply to the rest of us too. (11+ / 0-)

        Unexpected stuff comes up. Budgets must be cut in some areas to take care of priority stuff in other areas.
        The vast majority of us scrape by on 50k or less and all those incidentals crop up for us too.
        My point is that those who make more than 250k are a sum total of 2% of the American population. You're among the fortunate few to make that kind of dough.
        All the rest of us out here are familiar with having to take the income we have and make everything happen within those means. We do the best we can with what we have to work with.
        "Just run the numbers."
        Heh.
        I do, all the time.

        Everybody got to elevate from the norm....

        by Icicle68 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:32:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am not among the "2%" who make more than $250K (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TiaRachel, lighttheway

          In fact, I am unemployed and can't work in my field in my new state.

          I have, however, lived in a very expensive city and had a huge mortgage payment for a small house, was a single mom with twins (one of whom was uninsurable), student debt, tuition and childcare and medical expenses for my son, high transportation costs, helped support a sick parent, paid high property and state and sales tax.

          I didn't have an extravagant lifestyle, but 50K or less in my old city wouldn't have covered the costs of a family of three or four.  

          The whole point of the original comment was to get folks to think outside their own box.  Maybe you can't, but the numbers are the numbers and a $4K plus mortgage payment for a small house in a middle class neighborhood wasn't unusual.

          It's just the facts.  Maybe that would get you a mansion wherever you lived. It didn't in my old city.  

          BagNewsNotes: Visual Politics, Media Image Analysis

          by ksh01 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:54:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lots of families in cities (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tardis10, Ice Blue, Brooke In Seattle

            live on $50K or less, with family sizes even larger than three or four.

            •  Many can't in San Francisco (0+ / 0-)

              here: plug in what you want in terms of bedrooms. I'm telling you that it's hard to live on that in SF.

              You don't have to believe me, just go to the link. Try for a safe but not fancy neighborhood.  Maybe parts of the Mission, Glen Park, Richmond, Sunset (tho it can be gloomy out there), Lower Haight. Maybe a three bedroom if you have two kids of different genders. See what you get.

              50K wouldn't cut it.

              Maybe you are saying cities like SF should be abandoned to only those who make enough to live there.  Maybe you are right, there's been a huge amount of economic cleansing already.  It's sort of sterilized parts of the city.

              BagNewsNotes: Visual Politics, Media Image Analysis

              by ksh01 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:48:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  That mortgage amount is likely (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ksh01

            a smaller % of net income than the rents paid in some cities by more typical earners. But then it is always more expensive to be poor than rich.

            "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

            by tardis10 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:54:13 AM PST

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            •  That's an interesting point (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tardis10

              I was in the housing rights field in SF and, if I remember correctly, it was, at one point true that rent was more expensive than mortgage. After the housing crash -- for a little while at least -- rents were less expensive.

              I don't know what's happening there now.  Wouldn't be surprised if rents outpaced mortgages at this point.  

              BagNewsNotes: Visual Politics, Media Image Analysis

              by ksh01 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 10:07:28 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  I think we need to (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ksh01, Icicle68

          take up a collection for ksho1's vast hardships from living on a six figure income.

          I never knew those people had it so bad.

          The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

          by dfarrah on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:08:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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