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View Diary: President Obama speaks to nation about fiscal cliff saying a deal is within sight - full transcript (41 comments)

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  •  How does it do that? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smartdemmg, elwior, Matt Z, FiredUpInCA
    Anything that turns back the clock on a half-century of Progressive Democratic accomplishments, from F.D.R. to Johnson
    I don't like the contours of this deal, but I am of the opinion that any deal is going to suck. And, in fact, going over the fiscal cliff sucks.

    Does this deal suck worse than other alternative deals? Maybe, maybe not.

    But how does it "turn the clock back" on the progressive accomplishments of past presidents?  

    You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

    by tomjones on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:13:55 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Anything that cuts Social Security or Medicare... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      teacherjon, Anorish

      ...benefits, either directly or indirectly, is not good. Period.

      At a time when corporations and the 1% are doing better than ever, this is the antithesis to correcting massive income inequality in America.

      Just read virtually ANYTHING from Stiglitz and Krugman over the past year for more information on these greater truths.

      I've written about this as well. It gets to a point where redundancy is tiresome, frankly. Sorry, but that's all you're getting from me in this comment.

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:19:09 AM PST

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      •  lol, oooooook. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sophie Amrain, HappyinNM, FiredUpInCA

        Maybe that is enough detail for your faithful followers to digest, but given that nothing in this deal cuts SS or Medicare directly or indirectly, I will have to assume that you are just flinging poo at the wall and hoping it sticks.

        You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

        by tomjones on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:20:54 AM PST

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        •  What "deal" are you talking about? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          teacherjon, Anorish

          This thing's gone through more iterations--and almost as much political kabuki--than the EU bailout of Greece!

          I'm not flinging any "poo," at all. I'm telling it like it is, despite the condescending comment to which I'm responding right now.

          Happy New Year!

          "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

          by bobswern on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:26:47 AM PST

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          •  Yes, Happy New Year to you as well (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sophie Amrain

            At least despite our differences we can agree on that.

            PS: I'm sorry that you feel that being asked to explain and justify your fear-mongering is condescending, but if you really feel that way you should consider abstaining from commenting on the internet.

            You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

            by tomjones on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:32:29 AM PST

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            •  Fear-mongering? More like reality-mongering... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              teacherjon, elwior, flowerfarmer, Anorish

              What does "shared sacrifice" mean, exactly?

              There has been abso-f*cking-lutely NOTHING SIGNIFICANT that has occurred, as far as real sacrifice is concerned, with regard to the 1% "sharing" in any economic sacrifice; and, that's since the onset of our country's Great Recession.

              This entire economic nightmare has been foisted upon the backs of the 99%. Period.

              The entire concept of "shared sacrifice," in and of itself, is nothing but status quo spin.

              I suppose I'm just "imagining" that the "banks own the place," as far as D.C.'s concerned.

              I suppose I'm just imagining that William Daley and Jack Lew--the last and current chiefs-of-staff in the White House--aren't Wall Street imports, from JP Morgan Chase and Citigroup, respectively.

              I supposed I'm just imagining that the President reappointed a Republican to run the Federal Reserve; and a died-in-the-wool leader of the New York community as his Treasury Secretary?

              I suppose I'm just imagining that the acolytes of Robert Rubin, if not Robert Rubin, himself--all of the very people that got us into this mess in the first place--aren't driving the fiscal cliff bullshit which we're dealing with right now.

              Yeah. It must be my fear-mongering...that's brought us into a bullshit housing "recovery," which is more about the 1% buying up distressed property to further expand their efforts to transform America into a true rentier society.

              Yeah. It must be my fear-mongering...that's created the greatest economic disparity between this country's haves and have-nots in the past 100 years. (And, it's getting worse, not better.)

              Yeah. It must be my fear-mongering...that's created the most severe incidence of long-term joblessness this country's every seen since metrics were first created to define this.

              "Shared sacrifice." There is NOTHING shared about it.

              "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

              by bobswern on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:51:27 AM PST

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              •  Shared Sacrifice is Positively Orwellian. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                elwior, bobswern, Anorish

                Much like the term Entitlement, or Fiscal Cliff.

                The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

                by teacherjon on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:54:51 AM PST

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              •  Well, thank you for elaborating (0+ / 0-)

                But I am well aware of your ongoing critique of the Obama Administration and its policies.

                How does all that answer my question about your allegation that this current deal is gutting a half-century of progressive policies?

                It seems to specifically exclude direct or indirect cuts to Medicare and SS, which was the only concrete thing you cited.

                Also, do you remember how we got to the point where this "fiscal cliff" didn't include cuts to entitlements? Why, it was Pres. Obama! My word.

                You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

                by tomjones on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:15:43 PM PST

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                •  This is a mostly temporary solution, delaying... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...matter, what? 60 or 90 days? And, that's ASSUMING this bears any semblance to what actually ends up being passed...which is a stretch, at best. So, everyone--including you, apparently--will jump on the meme: "See, that wasn't so bad." When, in fact, very little will have occurred, at least with regard to the passage of any comprehensive, legislative solution.

                  The REALITY is the President has stated, numerous times, that the 99% will be taking a hit. The 1% and the corporations? Virtually this entire round of kabuki is about what, exactly? The 1% having to pay 2% or 3% more in income taxes? (Will it even retrace what the 1% were paying in taxes back during the 90's? Well, we don't know yet, do we?)

                  How low of a bar will be set over the next day, or two, or three?

                  The real answer to that is: JUST BARELY ENOUGH TO SPIN SOMETHING THAT BEARS SOME SEMBLANCE TO SOMETHING SUBSTANTIVE.

                  Meanwhile--much more likely than not--the substantive solution will be deferred.

                  Rinse. Repeat.

                  The kabuki continues...same channel...same time...stay tuned....in the meantime, please change the channel to your favorite "reality t.v. show." (Which is anything BUT "reality.")

                  "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

                  by bobswern on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:30:03 PM PST

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          •  PPS: (0+ / 0-)

            How can someone who makes a statement like the following, which is the dictionary definition of condescension,

            It gets to a point where redundancy is tiresome, frankly. Sorry, but that's all you're getting from me in this comment.
            Then think they can turn around and complain when they get it back in kind?

            You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

            by tomjones on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:43:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Don't let it get to you. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bakeneko

              There are people on this site who always assume the worst. All this crap started when the Repukes, for the first time in the history of Congress, decided not to raise the debt ceiling. And when you begin with shit, no matter how many spices you add, it's still shit. And some folks around here are pissed because Obama can't find a better spice.

              •  Wow, what a great comment. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                HappyinNM

                I think that is the best metaphor I have ever seen to describe this situation.

                You win the internet for today.

                You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

                by tomjones on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:12:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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