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View Diary: How will Obama avoid another debt ceiling fight with the House GOP? (79 comments)

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  •  They reiterated it on Dec. 6, 2012, and (5+ / 0-)

    were even more emphatic:

     

    Q    Okay.  And secondly, can we quickly revisit the debt ceiling question?  You were asked yesterday about whether the President would invoke executive power and the 14th Amendment.  Can you say that --

    MR. CARNEY:  And Peter, with lightning speed, dug up a quote that I thought would take at least a few hours to find.  (Laughter.)  Let me --

    Q    Have you found another one?  (Laughter.)  

    Q    Can you say that the President has ruled that out as an option, or can you say whether there are discussions or studies underway?

    MR. CARNEY:  Let me give you your answer.  I can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th Amendment gives the President the power to ignore the debt ceiling -- period.
     

    Were he to go the 14th Amendment route after that, he arguably would be taking steps that he believes to be beyond his Constitutional authority, in violation of his oath of office.  
    •  Exactly. (0+ / 0-)

      That's pretty Shermanesque.

      The right could quote Carney himself as proving Obama is acting as a dictator.

      "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

      by Scott Wooledge on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:53:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That doesn't rule out the $1T coin, though. /nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MPociask

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:59:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Um, yeah, pretty much it does. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Scott Wooledge, VClib

        That  clearly would be seen as a trick to try to avoid the debt ceiling.  

        It's not going to happen.  

        •  $1T coin has nothing to do with the 14th, but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MPociask

          rather the ability to mint coinage of any value.

          Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
          I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
          —Spike Milligan

          by polecat on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 11:24:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  yes, but (3+ / 0-)

            Using that coin to avoid going through Congress for a debt ceiling vote is predicated on a 14th Amendment argument, since by law, Congress must currently approve all increases to the debt ceiling. The only justification for breaking the debt ceiling law is to say it is unconstitutional as per the 14th Amendment.

            "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

            by CaptUnderpants on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 11:40:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, it's not (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              polecat, AmericanAnt, Scandalous One

              You don't go through the debt ceiling if you get 2 trillion dollars in free money.  The 14th amendment is not implicated, at all.

              The government can raise two money in two ways.  1) Issue debt.  This is subject to the debt ceiling.  2) Print money.  This is subject to Congressional approval, EXCEPT FOR the minting of platinum coins.  The President has clear constitutional authority to do the trillion dollar coin, and the diarist is wrong when he confuses the 14th amendment solution with the platinum coin solution.

              The debt ceiling conflicts with laws Congress has passed to spend that money, anyway.  The President should just ignore it, and say that if Congress didn't want to spend the money, it shouldn't have passed laws saying it should be spent.  Who would even have standing to sue?

              •  One word: Impeachment (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib

                The House would impeach him just as quickly for minting the $1T coin as they would for trying some 14th Amendment scheme.

                Let's face it,...they have him in a box on the debt ceiling.  He is going to have to negotiate.  And, after he forced them to allow taxes to increase on somebody, they are goingt o demand a VERY large pound of flesh.  Maybe several pounds...

                And, for all of you who think Dems "won" just because this deal had no spending cuts, you're going to find out how big a pound of flesh really is.

                •  Impeach him for what? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Scandalous One

                  What high crime or misdemeanor would it be to use his constitutional, statutory authority to mint two coins, to ensure that the United States pays its bills?  

                  Even if he was impeached, so what?  The House can impeach him, but the trial would happen in the Democratically controlled Senate.  You think a Democratic Senate is going to convict a Democratic President?  

      •  The expected crash in the value of dollar, and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        polecat

        collapse of the US economy precludes the $1 T tricks.

        In order for a fiat currency to work, the market needs to expect that the government will restrain the growth of money to slightly above real economic growth.  The $1 T coin trick, undermines confidence in the dollar to a massive degree.

        There are an infinite number of bad policies that are permitted by law, the $1 T coin is one of them.

        The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

        by nextstep on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 12:21:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The guy with a kill list (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Scott Wooledge

      Who has authorized the assassination of American citizens, and sends American soldiers to war without a Congressional declaration, is suddenly supposed to worry about the limits of his Constitutional authority?

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