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View Diary: Corbett announces he plans to get ALL sanctions against Penn State overturned (49 comments)

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  •  What a bunch of bollocks ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kalihikane

    There were at least two reported allegations of Sandusky's sexual abuse that preceded the 2002 "McQuery" incident -- one involving a 1998 complaint made to a victim's High School and another involving a janitor witness in 2000.  

    These claims were completely suppressed by authorities both on and off campus, including the disgraced Spanier, Schultz, Curley, Paterno and then President of the BoT.  They only regained traction AFTER Pulitzer Prize winning local journalism forced the issue onto the national stage.

    Penn State engaged in an institutional cover-up of extraordinary magnitude and at the highest levels for over a decade -- and this is shown by not only the Freeh Report, but the State Attorney General's office that has also pursued criminal claims against senior members of the PSU Administration for this conduct.  

    There are also other outstanding state and federal investigations still pending -- but there is no doubt they will confirm what you apparently refuse to admit.

    As to The Second Mile, all this is hardly a whitewash to protect that organization and its contributors.  Its CEO resigned and it is now a defunct entity, having participated equally in the same sort of PSU protective cover-up that no one can reasonably deny.

    The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety. H.L. Mencken

    by ancblu on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 08:12:05 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  1998 Complaints (0+ / 0-)

      I think you will find the 1998 complaints were handled properly (by the book) by the PSU administration.   The allegations were turned over to the local police (not the Campus Police) by the administration.  Are you saying it is the University's job to oversee the local Police and DA?  Should your employer terminate you if you are accused of something and the police come back and say their investigation yielded nothing?

      Once there was a second allegation - regardless of how it was presented (from McQueary), Sandusky should have been dismissed/banned from the program.  But McQueary reporting seeing them in the shower together is a completely different thing than hearing something in the shower and seeing a recently showered Sandusky in the locker room 10 minutes later.

      Watch the Spanier trial - if their ever is one.  It will be instructive.  As for the second mile being "shut down", tell me what board members were disgraced (after receiving multiple allegations) and lost their jobs over this.  I have no issues with the NCAA actions if McQueary reported then what he now says he did - but to take his statements now at face value requires you to ignore eyewitness testimony as to what he reported then from a very credible witness.  - something the Freeh report had no issue doing.

      As for the emails that are so probative - read them all.  It is entirely possible they are alluding to a cover up, and just as possible they are referencing the potential fallout from rumor and innuendo.  If you think that it is a stretch to be concerned about adverse publicity for any kind of alleged sexual impropriety, ask the Duke Rape boys about life after the incident or Woody Allen who will always be the child molester.

      Fortunately, the four you mentioned (Curley, Spanier, Schultz, and the President of the BoT), will get due process.  If they are found guilty - so be it.  But the trials (if there are any) will be based on all the evidence- not just the portions of it to support a specific conclusion - as was the Freeh report.  

      Whenever this topic comes up, it amazes me how so many people support punishment without any sort of due process.  Perhaps we should just do away with the entire criminal justice system and have former law enforcement officials conduct investigations, write reports and then dole out sentences.  If the NCAA wants to dole out punishments to their members (which they are well within their rights to do), they should conduct their own investigation and proceed based on those conclusions - as they have done in every other enforcement case.  But to take the Freeh report at face value as the basis for those sanctions is irresponsible.  If McQueary is discredited (and he may well be), much of the conclusions drawn from the Freeh Report will be discredited as well.

      •  I do not see how the issue (0+ / 0-)

        of "Due Drocess" in any way plays into the issue of the Freeh investigation and the NCAA sanctions to which PSU consented.

        PSU hired the Freeh law firm -- thus providing a widely credible, arms-length investigator to determine the facts and reasonably drawn conclusions about the incident.  The Freeh-PSU relationship is therefore essentially between private actors and Due Process is not a relevant issue.

        The NCAA also relied extensively on the findings and conclusions of the Freeh Report which was shared by PSU that commissioned it.  All relevant parties further acknowledge this was a reasonable and appropriate foundation for purposes of NCAA review because the report  was far more comprehensive than anything the NCAA could undertake.  And again ... no Due Process concerns are implicated because there is no "state action" involved.

        Similarly, PSU consented to the NCAA sanctions - after substantial consultation with the governing organization, advocacy on a multitude of issues and consideration of even more draconian alternatives.  But ... once again ... there is no state action involved in this regulation by the NCAA of institutional conduct by one of its members -- no Due Process issues are presented.

        If you are concerned with issues related to conformity with either established or ad hoc procedures developed by the NCAA in response to an unprecedented event, you do so only by ignoring the reality of how this unfolded -- especially PSU's active involvement and concurrence with the entire process and outcome.  That PSU is not joining the Governor's litigation speaks volumes on the supposed issue you are conjuring.

        The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety. H.L. Mencken

        by ancblu on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:02:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You mis-read what I wrote (0+ / 0-)

          My comments related to due process were related to the four PSA administrators.  As I stated above, the NCAA can do as they wish - they do not have to be fair or impartial.  They can ignore exculpatory testimony all they want, however a criminal trial cannot.    

          Beyond that, I have a number of issues with your reasoning.  By your logic, President Clinton supported/agreed with the conduct of the investigation and the subsequent conclusions of the Independent Council because he appointed him (Janet Reno, who appointed Star worked for him).  

          The worst part of your argument is that you talk about Freeh as if he is some ethical public servant who is beyond reproach.  
          Throughout his career, he has been accused of tailoring his investigations to reach pre-ordained conclusions.  The FBI has been doing this since its founding - Have you not studied Hoover?  Freeh simply continued with the fine tradition.  As for PSU, he was brought in to reach a pre-ordained conclusion (in order to inoculate board members and Central PA politicos associated with the Second Mile) and he had to ignore some very credible testimony to do it.  

          From Your Reply:
          "If you are concerned with issues related to conformity with either established or ad hoc procedures developed by the NCAA in response to an unprecedented event, you do so only by ignoring the reality of how this unfolded -- especially PSU's active involvement and concurrence with the entire process and outcome.  That PSU is not joining the Governor's litigation speaks volumes on the supposed issue you are conjuring."

          Really, PSU consented to the punishment because they had no choice.  They were given two options, the one they took or complete cancellation of the program.  You treat it as if they willingly agreed to any of this.  Many trustees are on record with their displeasure of the Freeh report and the NCAA sanctions that were forced upon them.  Trust me, many of the trustees support the findings of the Freeh report the same way Bill Clinton supports the Starr report.

          As for not being part of the litigation, are you serious?  PSU is not part of the litigation because they are still under the NCAA's disciplinary thumb.  

    •  Ok, so go after and punish all those... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ancblu

      ...people who might have contributed to the ugly mess.  But why the entire existing and future students vast majority that don't do sports but enjoy...or do you suggest they are some how/ way partly at fault for supporting the football program?

      Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

      by kalihikane on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:57:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Every NCAA sanction (0+ / 0-)

        directly and indirectly affects the entire membership of the sanctioned organization -- including past, present and future students, alumni, administrators, faculty AND athletes

        Go ask anyone associated with The Ohio State, University of Southern California or even the death penaltied Southern Methodist University how their entire communities were and continue to be impacted by substantial NCAA sanctions.

        And I simply cannot comprehend your argument.  Even in criminal matters there are a host of "innocents" adversely affected when a perpetrator is punished with jail or worse -- and certainly not least the perpetrator's family and friends.

        Each of the current student-athletes scholarships were protected and each also was granted the unrestricted opportunity to transfer to another institution if they chose to do so.

        And to your specific question -- the most significant problem identified by the NCAA and Mr. Freeh was the deeply embedded and long-standing PSU "culture," which you must admit can only be created by the contributions of each and every member of the PSU community, whether individually or in aggregate.  For this culture to change, everyone must suffer some measure of accountability.

        All of this seems so manifestly self-evident I can scarcely understand the objections.

        The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety. H.L. Mencken

        by ancblu on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:51:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Fair" argument but in my mind not ... (0+ / 0-)

          ...acceptable.  I am somewhat influenced by past issues and one particular incident has some relevance at least to me.  On December 7, 1941, Japan declared war on United States with their sneak attack at Pearl Harbour, Hawaii.  As a consequence of that attack and the thousands of US citizens killed, the US government rounded up thousands of Japanese Americans, the vast majority citizens of the USA, school children, parents, business owners, etc., and placed them in concentration camps over the western US.  No warrants, nothing. They were placed under guard 24-7 for 2-3yrs.  When finally released they went back to homes that were occupied by others, businesses operated by others, farms taken over by others...you get the idea.  Because they were "guilty by association" they suffered significant losses; material, spiritual, etc.,.  All because they were of Japanese ancestry.  Obviously it is an overly dramatic comparision but in fact what is happening to students present and past and anyone associated with PSU is punishment for being associated with Penn State U.  Is that fair?

          Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

          by kalihikane on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 10:07:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No ... it is not a fair comparison (0+ / 0-)

            as a matter of fact, ethics or law.

            The Japanese intern case in US history involved systemic state action discrimination based upon race and national origin.

            Your analogy to private NCAA sanctions against the PSU community for lack of institutional control over a sports program involves nothing of the sort ... by any sensible measure of comparison.

            The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety. H.L. Mencken

            by ancblu on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 10:59:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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