Skip to main content

View Diary: The fatal flaw in 'Stand Your Ground' laws (221 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It seems like I read someplace that that might (5+ / 0-)

    have happened over two hundred years ago.

    We suffer in ways that no other society does, and we maintain a relationship with RKBA that no other society does. Accordingly, what we do could fairly be characterized as non sensical (or even counter productive if one wanted to be brutally honest).

    There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

    by oldpotsmuggler on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 08:47:31 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  no other society? (6+ / 0-)

      I'll let the Swiss know.

      •  Maybe we should pay attention to the Swiss. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber

        I don't think they kill 88 people a day with their guns.

        **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

        by glorificus on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:02:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  They have many policies which I agree with (7+ / 0-)

          including 2 years of mandatory national service, better health and mental health systems, some very nice cheese, and Teuscher chocolates.

          They also don't fuck-around with gun crimes.
          Military trial, military prison... you come out as a corpse.

          •  They also don't have gun shows, people going any (0+ / 0-)

            place they want in the countryside target shooting, etc.

            There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

            by oldpotsmuggler on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:36:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'll have to phone my friends in Sils-Maria (4+ / 0-)

              and inform them of their illegal alpine activities.
              Got in Himmel, they're criminals!

              As to gunshows?  I believe you're correct.  They travel to Germany for those.

              •  So, no gunshows! Then there's a;so the part about (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueness

                how Switzerland has no standing military, and practices stringent neutrality.

                That's not apples to oranges. Standard NRA talking points?

                There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

                by oldpotsmuggler on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 09:39:40 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  They travel to the equivalent of (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PavePusher

                  the Paris Airshow.  The US "Shot Show" is similar but perhaps smaller.

                  The Swiss have a standing military, comprised of those persons called to active-duty for a 2 year stint, and their supervising Officer corps.

                  As to "standard talking points" you really need to do better than MAIG and Brady if you're going to hit me up about Switzerland.
                  Uf Widerluege.

                  •  You're not a Republican (are you?), you don't (0+ / 0-)

                    get your own facts
                    Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a people's militia for its national defense.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                    also "To purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms. Everyone over the age of 18 who is not psychiatrically disabled (such as having had a history of endangering his own life or the lives of others) or identified as posing security problems, and who has a clean criminal record (requires a Criminal Records Bureau check) can request such a permit.[9]
                    To buy a gun from an individual, no permit is needed, but the seller is expected to establish a reasonable certainty that the purchaser will fulfill the above-mentioned conditions (usually done through a Criminal Records Bureau check). The participants in such a transaction are required to prepare a written contract detailing the identities of both vendor and purchaser, the weapon's type, manufacturer, and serial number. The law requires the written contract to be kept for ten years by the buyer and seller. The seller is also required to see some official ID from the purchaser, for such sales are only allowed to Swiss nationals and foreigners with a valid residence permit, with the exception of those foreigners that come from certain countries (Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Albania, Algeria), to whom such sales are not allowed even if they do have a residence permit. Foreigners without a residence permit must ask for Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). [10]"

                    All bullshit aside, what part of that sounds like where you live?

                    There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

                    by oldpotsmuggler on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 07:09:59 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Perhaps you should meet some Swiss (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      PavePusher

                      and find out how well that Wikipedia article is adhered-to.

                      As to the exclusion of certain "lesser-persons" to equal rights, I've no recourse but to agree.

                      •  On my trips to Switzerland (admittedly when I (0+ / 0-)

                        was in the position some years back to avail myself of the money laundering opportunities) I'm not sure I ever met anyone who was not Swiss. And I must say, everyone I dealt with was 100% by the book. In fact one teller really sticks in my mind because of the way that she smiled so genuinely when she was counting out my $1,000 bills, and apologizing for not having more of them available.

                        There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

                        by oldpotsmuggler on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 09:31:11 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Grandma already knows how to suck eggs, sonny. n/t (0+ / 0-)
      •  Yes, there are firearms in Switzerland. No, we do (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueness

        nothing like they do, and they allow nothing like what goes on here incessantly.

        There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

        by oldpotsmuggler on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:24:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are, of course, correct oldpotsmuggler (6+ / 0-)

          We also fail to have periodic purges of people who don't look like "us".  
          We fail to follow the jingoistic policies of many a European nation, and expel the foreign among us, after the work's been done for lower wages that "we'd" accept.
          The darker-of-skin, the worshipers of religions other than those who adhere to the tenets of Martin Luther.
          We fail to hold-fast to our national identity and protect our private holdings from those not born here.
          Well, not really "here" but of good solid Northern European Stock.  Except the Irish.  Not them.  Nor the Poles.
          We tossed the French.  Those mediterraneans?
          They're so dark and swarthy... oh noes.  They can't become citizens, nor hold property.

          It just wouldn't be right, fitting, or well-regulated.

    •  All these modern interpretations are <30 years (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Glen The Plumber

      old, and all were created by the NRA, bought politicians and stacked courts - not a single one of these "historic" interpretations existed for the first 200 years of our Constitution.

      Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

      by DefendOurConstitution on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:06:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, PavePusher, Tom Seaview, fuzzyguy
        " `The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the milita, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right." [Nunn vs. State, 1 Ga. (1 Kel.) 243, at 251 (1846)]

        In politics, there is the class war. Everything else is naming post offices.

        by happymisanthropy on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:55:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea, PavePusher, fuzzyguy
      It seems like I read someplace that that might (2+ / 0-)
      have happened over two hundred years ago.
      Exactly.  That's what we evolved from, if we choose to use that metaphor.

      The metaphor breaks down mostly in that evolution is not a deliberate choice.

      In politics, there is the class war. Everything else is naming post offices.

      by happymisanthropy on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:47:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site