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  •  Pretty much what Bernie Sanders said (13+ / 0-)

    Just read his email.  Bernie is on the budget committee in the senate.  His take is that's this deal was better than no deal.  So, I'll accept that and move on to the next fight.  It's going to be tough fighting back the people who want to cut entitlements even ones that do not contribute to the deficit.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 04:17:15 AM PST

    •  I tend to agree, but I still disagree with most of (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      I am a Patriot, elwior, Armando, aitchdee

      this diary.  

      While the negotiators or grocery shoppers might not appreciate being questioned or being required to justify their decisions, that doesn't mean those not a part of the negotiations do not have the right - nay, the responsibility - of asking those questions and demanding those justifications anyway.

      I disapprove wholeheartedly of the way so many here are doing nothing but criticizing the deal and ignoring the positive aspects of it.  However, I don;t believe the reverse behavior is any better - ignoring the negative and only approving.  There's a balance that's needed.  Look at and acknowledge both the positive and the negative, learn what can be learned from both those aspects, and try to affect the next negotiation process for the better with those lessons.

      I do know I do NOT want an attorney representing me who will go into a negotiation with the attitude that once they've done their negotiating, I had better shut up and smile and better not question how they did or why.  Arrogance like that I can do without, either in an attorney or in a President.

      "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

      by gustynpip on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 10:46:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  good points (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, Jbearlaw, aitchdee

        I'm not saying negotiators never make mistakes and are beyond criticism. I'm saying that if you weren't part of the negotiations, you might not appreciate all the reasons for the give and take involved.

        That's why as an attorney, it is vitally important to keep the client intimately involved with all the details of the negotiation. In fact, it's best to involve the client directly. That's what we do in mediation.

        •  But apparently (0+ / 0-)
          That's why as an attorney, it is vitally important to keep the client intimately involved with all the details of the negotiation. In fact, it's best to involve the client directly. That's what we do in mediation.
          ...this is not what happens in politics.

          In any case, your premise is nonsensical.

          The point of politics isn't 'negotiation' - it's the pursuit of power and influence.

          Who has the power currently? Clearly, not progressives.

          Progressives are not defining the terms of the negotiation, setting the ultimate goals, or creating situations in which the other side is forced to compromise.

          The bigger picture is that the rabid insane right has done an excellent job of pushing policy in a direction of its choosing.

          Even during Reagan's time, the current negotiated agreement would have been unthinkably reactionary and self-serving. Now it's paraded as if it's the best of all possible Panglossian solutions, with the pretence that we should all be grateful something worse didn't happen.

          Well. Of course something worse will happen the next time the GOP has a modicum of power. And the next. And the time after that.

          So this isn't even a victory. At best it's simply a holding action against further plutocracy.

          But we should still be grateful our betters did so well.

          Obviously.

          In reality, consistently revising expectations downwards is the Way of the Democrat.

          When we can start revising our expectations upwards again, you may have a point that we can just leave the professionals to act in our interests.

          Until then, hell no.

          "Be kind" - is that a religion?

          by ThatBritGuy on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 02:57:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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