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View Diary: Chuck Hagel to be nominated for secretary of defense (381 comments)

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  •  i also wasn't happy (1+ / 0-)
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    Eric Stratton

    with her fracking investments, and prefer kerry anyway, but even he has some ugly marks on his record. if he had voted against the iraq aumf, he'd right now be concluding his presidency.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 03:35:04 PM PST

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    •  His support for the Iraq AUMF (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Laurence Lewis

      was just sickening. And I say that as a true admirer of the man. But that day was... it's hard to say. I was watching on MSNBC and I was just kind of shell shocked. It was so obviously a bad idea, whether you were a dove or not. Invading Iraq was just an insult to logic and reason. For one thing, I knew then and there that there would major cuts to social programs and debt problems because of it, absurd cost projections from Paul Wolfowitz notwithstanding.

      I doubt Kerry would have won in 2004, personally. He might have, but at the time terrorism was the #1 issue and the GOP still enjoyed a sizable advantage on that issue. I doubt the public would have caught to reality on that in time for the 2004 election whether Kerry had dome the right thing with respect to the Iraq AUMF or if it had been Howard Dean. Public opinion takes time to shift. Look how long, and how many massacres, it took to shift PO with respect to gun control.

      You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

      by Eric Stratton on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:01:46 PM PST

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      •  his vote for it (0+ / 0-)

        after spending months arguing against it played right into bush's hands, because they were casting him as a flipflopper. i think that vote may have cost both kerry and hillary the presidency. but that's the problem with this whole hagel thing- democrats make lousy votes to appear tough, because democrats are supposed to be weak on national defense. it's time to kill that entire framing, and appointing a republican secdef doesn't exactly do that.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:15:43 PM PST

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        •  Well, yes. I'd prefer Wesley Clark in that sense. (2+ / 0-)
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          poco, Paper Cup

          But this isn't about Obama trying to look "tough". That was Hillary's mistake and it cost her the 2008 nomination more than any other single factor.

          This is about Obama sending a message to Netanyahu. Full stop. That's it. Hagel isn't going to DoD to screw over gays. Whatver his personal feelings about DADT repeal, his record in the USMC indicates that he is capable of executing orders given to him by his superiors.

          There is no better way in which Obama could stand up to the neocons. There is no other individual who would have a better shot at getting through the Senate over the objections of the Israeli-American right. That is, of course, assuming that Democrats stand behind the President's nominee.

          DADT is gone. That war is over and the good guys won. Hagel has waved the white flag. Cease fire already.

          You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

          by Eric Stratton on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:29:46 PM PST

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          •  netanyahu already understands obama's message (0+ / 0-)

            it's why he openly supported romney...

            we need democrats to appoint democrats, period. we need democrats to appoint people who share democratic values, period.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:32:50 PM PST

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            •  No sympathy for the devil. (2+ / 0-)
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              Shane Hensinger, poco

              The Dread Pirate Laurence takes no prisoners.

              You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

              by Eric Stratton on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:45:08 PM PST

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              •  OMG you two and your back and forth is (2+ / 0-)
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                Eric Stratton, poco

                absolutely hilarious. I've been following it throughout this entire thread and it's side-splitting. I particularly like your "Moses" comment - I was on the floor over that one.

                Thank you :-)

                "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

                by Shane Hensinger on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:50:32 PM PST

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                •  Thanks. I am especially proud of the Moses quip. (3+ / 0-)
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                  Shane Hensinger, poco, edwardssl

                  You've been a great audience, please remember to tip your waitresses and bartenders. I'm in Vegas in two weeks. You people are beautiful!

                  You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

                  by Eric Stratton on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 05:00:59 PM PST

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