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  •  Lord's Prayer (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, sawolf, HoosierD42

    That will be struck down by the courts.

    Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

    by MichaelNY on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 01:13:40 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, forcing people of all creeds to say it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sawolf, MichaelNY

      is akin to a theocracy.

      Age 23. Voting in NJ-03. Lived most of life in NJ-01. Had Rush Holt represent me during my undergrad years and am now represented by Frank Pallone in my grad school.

      by KingofSpades on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 01:55:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Like the Pledge of Allegiance and In God We Trust (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jncca, MichaelNY, NMLib

      right? ;)

      Now I'm being facetious of course since there's actual precedent in our favor on school prayer, but there are a ton of things our government does/forces/allows that seem like they should be a slam dunk to get struck down by the courts on the grounds of separation of church and state, yet they're still there.

      NC-06/NC-04; -9.12, -8.62; Yellow Dog Democrat

      by sawolf on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:06:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't disagree at all (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KingofSpades

        But the Lord's Prayer is a specifically Christian prayer, ergo sectarian, regardless of its content, which would be acceptable to some non-Christians.

        Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

        by MichaelNY on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 03:15:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  True. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY

          The Pledge of Allegiance, despite its flaws, is much more inclusive as Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship the same God.  The Lord's Prayer is a New Testament creation.

          Age 23. Voting in NJ-03. Lived most of life in NJ-01. Had Rush Holt represent me during my undergrad years and am now represented by Frank Pallone in my grad school.

          by KingofSpades on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 03:25:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  However to us atheists it's still offensive (7+ / 0-)

            But what really disgusts me the most is that we force people, who have a right to freedom of speech and expression as well as a right to live here, to have to pledge allegiance.

            NC-06/NC-04; -9.12, -8.62; Yellow Dog Democrat

            by sawolf on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 03:30:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Under God" (6+ / 0-)

              should be offensive to everyone, believers and non-believers alike. This nation is emphatically not under God, but under a secular constitution.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:02:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Audrid, MichaelNY

                In high school, I declined to speak the pledge (hand over heart and standing, still) partially because it was against my beliefs in a secular government free from religion, partially because I did not like the concept of having to redundantly reiterate my allegiance.

                Age 23. Voting in NJ-03. Lived most of life in NJ-01. Had Rush Holt represent me during my undergrad years and am now represented by Frank Pallone in my grad school.

                by KingofSpades on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:49:14 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  heh (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  KingofSpades, Audrid, JGibson, MichaelNY

                  We had to say it through 6th grade. I would recite the whole thing except for "under God". I don't remember anyone getting in trouble for saying it wrong, kids used to say things like "one nation under the Beatles" or "I pledge allegiance to the fag of the united states of asparagus".

                  SSP poster. 43, new CA-6, -0.25/-3.90

                  by sacman701 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 05:03:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I was in middle school at the time (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  KingofSpades, Audrid, MichaelNY

                  and I became politically aware in about 2003/2004 when it became incredibly obvious that Bush and co had lied us into war for profiteering, both financially and politically.  That was when I decided that I had had enough pledging allegiance to the flag that Bush and his cronies so disgustingly wrapped themselves in that I made a point of not standing up and remaining silent.  One of my teachers basically tried to get me to do it and I was incredibly ticked off, but there was no way for them to "force" me to say it.

                  If I were to say it now (for whatever reason) I would leave out the "under God."

                  Anyway, this is getting a little far from elections so...

                  NC-06/NC-04; -9.12, -8.62; Yellow Dog Democrat

                  by sawolf on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 05:19:44 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I had a friend of a friend (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  KingofSpades, James Allen, MichaelNY

                  Refuse to stand for the pledge and my winger teacher tried to get him in trouble. It was hilarious.

                  I call her a winger because this was a Speech class and at one point she said Catholics weren't Christians because they weren't born-again. Even as an ex-Catholic, I was incredibly offended.

                  24, Practical Progressive Democrat (-4.75, -4.51), DKE Gay Caucus Majority Leader, IN-02; Swingnut. Defeat Wacky Jackie for 2014!

                  by HoosierD42 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 11:26:42 PM PST

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          •  There is also a variation in the Lord's Prayer (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            between Catholics and Protestants. I would expect former Catholic turned Evangelical Protestant Pence to pick the Protestant version. The Lord's Prayer is also to be remembered for those of us that are Catholic as the part of the mass just before the Eucharist.

            "So there's a time for silence, and there's a time for waiting your turn. But if you know how you feel, and you so clearly know what you need to say, you'll know it. I don't think you should wait. I think you should speak now." -Taylor Swift

            by SouthernINDem on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 05:16:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Won't they have an opt out clause (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KingofSpades, MichaelNY, HoosierD42

      for students who don't want to say it. I can't imagine the Republicans are so crazy that they'd mandate that every student has to say it.

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