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View Diary: White House task force reviewing gun violence options pushes to meet end of month deadline (235 comments)

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  •  repeal the tiahrt amendment (10+ / 0-)

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    and allow BATF to actually enforce already existing laws.  no way should anyone even be talking about an AWB or NFR.

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 10:48:11 AM PST

    •  That is a good idea. But it wouldn't do... (12+ / 0-)

      ...much for cases like Newtown. Perhaps nothing would.

      Something similar to what's in that excellent diary you linked is what the Gun Owners of America did in Colorado.

      There, you can obtain a concealed carry license if you pass a background check and have as little as a one-hour firearms course that does not include any shooting. In other words, even if you have never fired a gun in your life, you can get a CCL there.

      But GOA took that another step similar to the Tiarht amendment. They got the state to tell county sheriffs (who issue CCLs there) not to disclose to any authority, state or federal, how many concealed carry licenses they issue or even to keep records on how many. One could argue in the computer it would be impossible to comply: the records are automatic. But nobody actually adds up the CCLs, so nobody knows how many have been issues statewide.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 11:02:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nothing is going to deter the determined. (7+ / 0-)

        Psychodynamics are frustrating things.

        People look for 'reasons" in tragedies and people, understandably, look for ways to prevent things from re-occurring.

        Sandy Hook, like any other tragedy, will be totally dissected and studied, compared and reviewed. Doubtlessly there are people searching for templates or other calculating criteria to be more able to predict who might be prone to meltdown and hurt others.

        The main issue is these incidents - massacres - are really rare when you look at "incidence per 100000". You/we are talking about one-millionth of 1 percent. In a country of, lets say 200 million adults, that means 200 possible incidents, yet we have only a fraction of those, so the incidence per 100000 in microscopic yet people think that a tax or a few more hurdles (or insurance - guffaw) will help eliminate these event and it really does seem preposterous.

        I BELIEVE we can severely curtail accidents and thefts with increased pressure on gun owners to secure their weapons (which most do anyway, but people are careless and leave guns around, which IS irresponsible to the Nth degree) or face serious penalties.

        I don't think we can prevent ALL these incidents which will be dissected in hindsight. They are too rarified and unpredictable.

        (Anybody that thinks this means I have a NRA card is fucking stupid.)

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 11:31:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lizzy Borden took and axe/ and gave her mother (8+ / 0-)

          40 wacks.

          And then when that was done/

          she didn't go down to the school yard and butcher 26 more people because that's really hard to do with an axe.

          People go berzerk in every society.  Anthropologists have reported men in societies as disparate as the Kung! and the Inuit sometimes just completely losing their shit and killing their families.

          Unless we find a way to get rid of knives, of rocks, of fists - we can't completely stop that.

          But I can pretty much promise more kids would be alive if this shooter had a bolt action rifle instead of a civilian variant of an assault rifle.

          "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

          by JesseCW on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:26:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm sorry, but I don't think you've factored in a (0+ / 0-)

            couple of things.

            These were kids.  They were not going to defend themselves in any way.

            Any weapon would have accomplished the same end.  

            This happened in Bosnia and happens in any number of violent, repressive societies.

            It is horrible, but not preventable unless we start identifying and helping these mentally abherrent folks a lot quicker.

            ....and somehow get parents to realize that they cannot have weaponry around these problem individuals.

            •  If the killing were slower, there would have been (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Womantrust

              more time for law enforcement to save lives.

              "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

              by JesseCW on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 01:57:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Not true at all. Chinese nut with a knife (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tytalus

              injured 22 kids at about the same time, killed none!

              http://abcnews.go.com/...

              He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

              by Sophie Amrain on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:12:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  What makes you think with 310 million firearms in (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cedwyn

                America hands right now, at last count....and gun shops running out of ammo and gun being brought left and right, as we speak....that any ban, even if implemented today....would make it impossible for a criminal to get his or her hands on any weapon of choice?  

                This is not China.  Criminals won't be reduced to having to commit mass murders with a butcher knife.

                •  I wouldn't be surprised (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  tytalus, Womantrust, Sophie Amrain

                  If similar arguments were made during the early- to mid-1800s about the abolition of slavery.

                  And no, I'm not saying gun owners are as despicable as slaveholders. Rather, I'm speaking to the seemingly daunting size of the task.

                  As for me, I'm willing to take a long view. If we can take measures this year that start to limit access to firearms, start to regulate them more heavily, and that, over time, will reduce that number through gun buy-backs and other measures, then perhaps in several decades or even a century we won't be having a discussion about how easy it is for criminals to obtain firearms.

                  Don't we owe our descendants a better nation?  I don't think any truly rational person believes the status quo with respect to gun policy in this nation is acceptable.  We need to evolve, just as this nation has evolved into something far, far different than contemplated by the nation's founders.

                  And your 310MM value seems a bit high -- the last reference I saw was 270MM from the Small Arms Survey.  Do you have a reference for your value?

              •  And prior to that, a Chinese man killed 6 and (0+ / 0-)

                injured 7 others with a knife because he had a fight with his girlfriend.

                If you need more data, please go here to the FBI stats

                Knives and blunt objects are used in about 1 in 5 homicides in the USA.

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