Skip to main content

View Diary: Barney Frank: Save Social Security by making the near rich pay a little more (146 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  How about making the payroll tax progressive (0+ / 0-)

    across the board, just like income taxes, with brackets and all. The first X dollars don't get taxed, then it gradually bumps up to its maximum rate. Sure. this would make it redistributive, but so what? I never understood the problem with that. Why does everything have to be "earned"?

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:45:54 PM PST

    •  "Why does everything have to be earned?" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thestructureguy

      Terrific question. The answer lies in incentives. If people don't have to earn the things they get they won't earn them. Pretty easy. If you have an option of working to earn things or having them given to you everyone would select option two. However, that would soon lead to having no incentive for anyone to earn and thus no one to pay for everyone else.

      There is nothing wrong with a social safety net and taking care of those that can't take care of themselves. Those that can't work and can't take care of themselves wouldn't be affected by the incentive to work and earn anyway because they are unable to do those things.

      But we must provide effective incentives for those that can work to work so we can even afford to take care of those that are most vulnerable.

      http://www.freakonomics.com/

      by Common Cents on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:54:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well thank you George freaking Will (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        No Exit

        I KNOW why it's a good thing to earn what you need to live. But not everyone is in a position to do this, especially in old age given how poorly people plan for retirement, how many people have been cheated out of their savings and pensions, and how little SS now pays. The system is absolutely rigged against non-rich people making the idea of earning a decent living till you die out of reach for many. Long term, we have to make things fairer in terms of getting out of the labor you put in the value you should be getting out of it, which the "market" is really, really bad at valuing in any moral sense of the word. But in the near term, we have to take care of the neediest so they don't suffer or live beneath a level that no one should live beneath whether it's their fault or not.

        Btw, I resent your insinuation that there are lots of people who can work but choose not to. I.e. they're bums. Sure, there are those, but they're vastly outnumbered by people who want to work but can't find work, or can only find low-paying work that's beneath their talents and ambitions. Your comment sounds right out of the Heritage Foundation.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 05:15:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You didn't even read what I said apparently. (0+ / 0-)

          I clearly stated we had to take care of those that can't take care of themselves.

          There is just nothing wrong with expecting those that can work to work. And incentives to work is something that is so special about earning things. If people have no incentive to work there are no people to tax to pay for social services.

          And I have no idea what you mean about the moral value of labor. But that is neither here nor there.

          http://www.freakonomics.com/

          by Common Cents on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 07:19:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Who the hell is talking about incentivizing (0+ / 0-)

            people to sit around doing nothing and not work? Where did that straw man even come into the discussion? Again, your approach to this issue reeks of RW boilerplate references to phantom welfare cheats and other deadbeats.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 08:19:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site