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View Diary: Updated - Game over: 14 Year Old Drops Gun at Basketball Game (87 comments)

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    •  Thank you for your link to The Salt Lake Tribune; (13+ / 0-)

      the Utica story might well have ended similarly as that in your linked story:

      When the suspect responded to demands to surrender by pointing the pistol at officers, one of the two officers on the scene shot the 37-year-old twice.
    •  Or holding a garden hose: (12+ / 0-)

      http://www.insideedition.com/...

      Isn't this a reflection of the Police State we've become again?

      When they've been conditioned to see us as the enemy?

      Hey, but headlines like the ones used in this diary don't help deescalate the manufactured fears Americans are being forced into.

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 08:35:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Might have been a cell phone he dropped... (9+ / 0-)

        but it wasn't, it was a gun. Turned out to be a BB gun, but how was anyone to know that? Let me ask:

        Why does a 14 year old middle school kid feel they need to carry (any) weapon into a basketball game?

        I don't think fear of the police was his likely motive, do you?

        •  Why do you assume he was afraid or was motivated (19+ / 1-)

          by fear? Isn't is possible he had it because it was a Christmas present he got?  Maybe he was having fun with it? Maybe he wanted to show it off to his friends?  Let them try it out or something.  

          And a BB gun can take an eye out but it is not a weapon.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:19:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Looks like one, doesn't it? (4+ / 0-)

            Sometimes perception is reality.

          •  WHAAAATT ??? (14+ / 1-)

            Christmas present?   A gun which is a Christmas present is NOT the same as a basket ball, a camera, a toy truck, a doll, a shirt, a sweater.    A gun as a Christmas present should be accompanied by 10 lessons on how to use it, WHERE to use it, it's role in society, how to store it,  etc etc.

            Having fun with it?   At a sports game?  You have 'fun' with bb guns at a rifle range.

            Show it off to his friends?   At a game?  See the first paragraph here.

            Have them try it out?     See the first paragraph here.

            Yes, BB guns can take an eye or an ear or good use of a hand or half a mouth of teeth out.  Do you want to volunteer?    

            BTW - About 10 yrs ago we almost lost a very good mail woman (in semi-rural upstate NY) because some kids having 'fun' with their BB guns, shot at her car as she was delivering mail on a rural road.  She was terrified - had to take a couple of weeks off of work, nearly quit.

            No, the kid probably did not take his BB gun to the game because he was scarred.  But no doubt he felt an edge of importance and attention because he had it.  

            Sorry, I see no snark label.  You get a donut.

            •  BB and pellet guns can kill (9+ / 0-)

              Find link in comment downthread to this sad story out of Fresno, CA:

              California boy, 10, dies after being shot with a pellet gun
            •  Link also added as an update to the diary. n/t (4+ / 0-)
            •  THIS (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              hideinplainsight, WakeUpNeo, PinHole
              But no doubt he felt an edge of importance and attention because he had it.
              Guns don't kill people, the gun culture kills people.

              Maybe I need to change my sig line.

              "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

              by blue in NC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 04:53:11 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Your HR abuse has been reported. (10+ / 0-)

              You don't like the fact that I too grew up in Upstate NY where we were given BB guns as toys and presents.  We never killed anyone and the cautionary tail that you'd take an eye out if you ever pointed at anyone would surely result was repeated and repeated to us ad nauseam.

              We understood they were toys that you didn't point at anyone.  You were lucky if it went 20 feet when fired.  

              I don't know the power BB guns today, but if they are like anything we had, they're mostly harmless.  We never had to go to any firing ranges, we put up paper targets in the back yard and tried to get the bulls-eye.

              How you define "Christmas present" is relative.  Since when does anyone have to live by your fear driven standards?  Your Fear Porn is duly noted.

              Will you stop children from playing Cops and Robbers or Cowboys and Indians too?  Hell, if you're going to go that far, ban all violent video games that train our children on how be better marksmen!  

              And yes, we brought our toy BB guns to school.  The teacher would make us put it away until recess, that's it!
              Where, at recess our friends would all try it out!  OH MY GOD...how barbaric, right?  

              Stop with the manufactured Pearl Clutching please.

              As for your "postal employee story", please provide me with a valid report of said.  One that I can verify.

              But then I'd have to tell you my story of our "postal employee" that refused to deliver my mail because of seeing a dog chain and the subsequent intervention on the part of Senator Hillary Clinton's office on my behalf to get them to stop playing games.  Which they did, with a written apology and a promise that it wouldn't happen again.

              I can scan the documents into the computer for you, if you don't believe me.

              So, as you can surmise, I don't trust stories like that, I want proof, since you've made it part of your reply here.  The Pavlovian training of the Post Office's '
              "Dog Bit Awareness" Campaign is what I blame as the excuse utilized by a lazy postal employee as justification not to do their job.  Had the dog I inherited when my father died, tried to attack her or any person, it would have been euthanized, period.  Had it actually tried to go after her when she was delivering the mail, she'd have had a case.  The problem there, I took the dog with me everyday to work 40 miles away and it was never there when the mail was supposed to be delivered, ever!

              So, in conclusion, you obviously disagree with me and my own life experiences so much so, you HR me for it, then you threaten me with being used in an experiment whereby you wish I be physically injured.  

              What wonderful standards you have!

              Besides your threats,  my brother used to hit me with the BB gun all the time, until I told on him.  It never took my eye out, I never lost a tooth, or an ear.  It did sting and leave a red mark on my legs, that's it.

              Good day!

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:33:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  You're hiderating for simple disagreement. (13+ / 0-)

              There is nothing disruptive about that comment. Your HR is abusive and should be removed.

              "Everything I do is blown out of proportion. It really hurts my feelings." - Paris Hilton

              by kestrel9000 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:38:42 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  HR is abusive. (7+ / 0-)

              You should remove it. People lose privileges for that.

              "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

              by happy camper on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 09:07:38 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  HR'd for HR abuse (4+ / 0-)

              Giving a donut nto someone with whom you're in a discussion is wrong... and for no better reason than you disagree with them? Fail.

              Remove your donut, and I'll remove mine.

              Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

              by Tom Seaview on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:07:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  HR'd. (3+ / 0-)
              Yes, BB guns can take an eye or an ear or good use of a hand or half a mouth of teeth out.  Do you want to volunteer?
          •  Guns, including BB, are not allowed at school. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PinHole, WakeUpNeo

            He will probably be expelled.

            RTKRC - Right to keep and raise children. Trumps RTKBA - Right to keep & bear arms.

            by hideinplainsight on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 06:05:01 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WakeUpNeo

            http://www.britannica.com/...

            air gun,  weapon based on the principle of the primitive blowgun that shoots bullets, pellets, or darts by expansion of compressed air.

            Most modern air guns are inexpensive BB guns (named for the size of the shot fired). The best of these develop about half the muzzle velocity of light firearms, are accurate enough for marksmanship training at ranges up to 100 feet (30 m), and can kill small game. Darts with tranquilizing drugs may be fired to immobilize animals for handling or capture. An air-gun projectile seldom carries beyond 300 feet (92 m).

            Early weapons had a reservoir of compressed

            http://www.whas11.com/...
            It's rare that someone dies after being shot by a BB gun but that's what happened to 11-year-old Dallas Barnes Monday night.

            Police say he and his family, including his 16-year-old uncle, were playing with an unloaded BB gun and pellet guns in the small kitchen of this home all day.

            "Another subject entered the home, loaded the bb gun unbeknownst to the uncle. They continued to play," said Lt. Barry Wilkerson.

            He says the uncle, playing with the gun, shot the victim in the chest.

            The BB penetrated the skin and entered the heart area which led to Dallas' death.

            http://www.mtssa.org/...
            1.  "Dangerous weapon" includes any switchblade or gravity knife, machete, scimitar, stiletto, sword, dagger, or knife with a blade of five inches [12.7 centimeters] or more; any throwing star, nunchaku, or other martial arts weapon; any billy, blackjack, sap, bludgeon, cudgel, metal knuckles, or sand club; any slungshot; any bow and arrow, crossbow, or spear; any stun gun; any weapon that will expel, or is readily capable of expelling, a projectile by the action of a spring, compressed air, or compressed gas including any such weapon, loaded or unloaded, commonly referred to as a BB gun, air rifle, or CO2 gun;
            and any projector of a bomb or any object containing or capable of producing and emitting any noxious liquid, gas, or substance.

            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

            by indycam on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 09:33:02 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks but NYS has different standards. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tom Seaview, Otteray Scribe

              Very similar but different.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 09:55:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  NYS has different standards than the (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WakeUpNeo

                Encyclopaedia Britannica ?
                Than the coroner who did the death certificate ?

                You claimed a BB gun is "not a weapon".

                And a BB gun can take an eye out but it is not a weapon.
                Clearly it is . For you to claim otherwise ...

                "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                by indycam on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:36:15 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  NYS Penal Law: (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Otteray Scribe, gerrilea, PavePusher

                  Article 265:  FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS

                  http://ypdcrime.com/...

                •  Please reference 43N's link....nope it's not a (0+ / 0-)

                  weapon.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:17:31 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Not true - Explain these sections from cited info: (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole
                    S 265.05 Unlawful possession of weapons by persons under sixteen.

                    It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of sixteen to possess any air-gun, spring-gun or other instrument or weapon in which the propelling force is a spring or air, or any gun or any instrument or weapon in or upon which any loaded or blank cartridges may be used, or any loaded or blank cartridges or ammunition therefor, or any dangerous knife; provided that the possession of rifle or shotgun or ammunition therefor by the holder of a hunting license or permit issued pursuant to article eleven of the environmental conservation law and used in accordance with said law shall not be governed by this section.

                    A person who violates the provisions of this section shall be adjudged a juvenile delinquent.

                    ---

                    S 265.06 Unlawful possession of a weapon upon school grounds.

                    It shall be unlawful for any person age sixteen or older to knowingly possess any air-gun, spring-gun or other instrument or weapon in which the propelling force is a spring, air, piston or CO2 cartridge in or upon a building or grounds, used for educational purposes, of any  school, college or university, without the written authorization of such educational institution.

                    Unlawful possession of a weapon upon school grounds is a violation.

                    Thanks for the link --- It helps to keep the conversation reality-based.
                  •  Another view, from Utica: (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole
                    Pistol incident cancels game at Donovan school in Utica  

                    Observer-Dispatch
                    Posted Jan 08, 2013 @ 08:01 PM
                    Last update Jan 09, 2013 @ 02:31 AM

                    UTICA — A girls modified basketball game at a Utica middle school was called off Tuesday night after a teenage boy dropped a pistol on the floor and a police pursuit ensued...

                    The officer noticed it was a handgun and yelled to another officer who was in uniform and on duty as a school resource officer at the game, police said...

                    They chased him outside and repeatedly ordered him to drop the gun, but instead he pointed the gun at police, officials said... (continues)

                    The article goes on to explain how the officers had to seek cover as they confronted the suspect and "continuously asked" him to "drop the gun" --- and they only learned it was a "BB" gun and that the suspect was 14 after taking him into custody.
                  •  This story includes video showing the weapon: (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole
                    Utica middle school hoops game cut short by teen with pellet gun

                    Published: 1/09 8:20 am
                    Updated: 1/09 7:17 pm

                    UTICA, N.Y. (AP) - Authorities say a 14-year-old boy is in custody after an armed encounter with Utica police when he dropped what appeared to be a pistol while attending a basketball game.

                    Officials tell local media outlets that an off-duty Utica police officer was at Tuesday night's girls modified basketball game at Donovan Junior High on Noyes Street when the officer heard something hit the hardwood floor and noticed a teenage boy picking up what looked like a handgun...

                    Police say the officers repeatedly ordered the teen to drop the gun as he pointed the weapon at them. The boy eventually dropped the weapon, which turned out to be a BB gun...

                  •  One more story here, with video if you have TWC: (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole
                    Police thankful coming out of middle school gun scare

                    By: Andrew Sorensen

                    Parents and kids in Utica were shaken up after a scare at a middle school basketball game Tuesday night. A gun wound up on the gym floor and from there, the situation only escalated. YNN's Andrew Sorensen has details of what unfolded and why police are happy the incident ended the way it did...

                    “He pointed the gun at the female officer and they took cover,” Hauck said...

                    Police say they're still investigating why the boy had the gun, but any charges that come from it will likely play out in family court... (continues)

                  •  A similar incident out of Janesville, WI (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole
                    Police: Janesville boy's bb gun causes scare

                    By GAZETTE STAFF
                    Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 3:16 p.m.

                    JANESVILLE—Police had to remind a Janesville boy of the gravity of recent shooting deaths after reports that he was walking around his neighbor-hood pointing a look-alike assault rifle at passing vehicles.

                    Police were called to the 1600 block of Lexington Drive after reports came in at about 2 p.m. today of a male in camouflage brandishing an assault rifle at passing traffic near the corner of Blackbridge Road and North Lexington Drive on Janesville’s east side, according to 911 scanner traffic.

                    Several officers rushed to the area and blocked off nearby streets and told neighbors to stay inside their homes as police armed with assault rifles searched yards around nearby residences...

                    (continues)

                    •  Key quote of why I'm trying to be impartial (0+ / 0-)

                      AND not be emotionally manipulated:

                      He said police explained to the boy that he had alarmed motorists, police and people in the neighborhood, and that it’s a bad idea to walk around in public openly brandishing any kind of a gun.
                      This misinformation is propaganda meant to manipulate people into fear control.
                      Brandished Law & Legal Definition

                      Federal law defines brandished as, “with reference to a dangerous weapon (including a firearm) means that all or part of the weapon was displayed, or the presence of the weapon was otherwise made known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the weapon was directly visible to that person. Accordingly, although the dangerous weapon does not have to be directly visible, the weapon must be present.” (18 USCS Appx § 1B1.1)

                      The law makes clear intent, not perceived/manufactured fear.

                      It is not illegal for a 12 yr old to play being a commando, not yet anyways.

                      Hey, but I still hold the position that if you want these things to end, stop teaching our children how to be such through video games, movies and television, simple.

                      No one in my generation pretended to be commandos on a mission...most of us, if we ever considered going into the military it was because it was a way out of the poverty we were forced into, for no other reasons.

                      We didn't have dreams of being the hero on some secret mission to save the world and die in a blaze of glory.

                      See the problem yet?

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:42:12 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes, I do see a problem, and this is a symptom. (0+ / 0-)

                        And am sorry you do not see this as a real problem.

                        "Just having fun" and "boys will be boys," I guess?

                        he was walking around his neighborhood pointing a look-alike assault rifle at passing vehicles.
                        •  Were you not ever a child? You cannot criminalize (0+ / 0-)

                          childhood AND that's exactly what I see you trying to do here.

                          Its bad enough we are drugging our children at levels never before seen in human history because they are kids.  

                          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

                          You now want them to be something other than what they see on TV, movies and video games.  If you don't want them to get ideas then demand these things not be allowed.  

                          Place the blame where it legitimately belongs, on society and the media moguls that make billions by conditioning children to act in violent ways, or in this specific case, they way you don't like, "playing commando".

                          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                          by gerrilea on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:05:24 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  "Not a weapon" and "Not a gun"? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole

                    For an "Air Rifle" recently available online ---

                    Follow this link for photos, further specs and discussion.


                    Warning:

                     Airguns and airsoft guns are not toys and are recommended for use by those 16 years of age or older. Adult supervision is required. Misuse or careless use may cause serious injury. Do not brandish or display your airgun/airsoft gun in public. It may confuse people and it may be a crime. Police and others may think an airgun/airsoft gun is a firearm. Do not change the coloration or markings to make it look more like a firearm. Buyer and user should conform to all laws governing the use and ownership of their airgun/airsoft gun. The person handling the airgun/airsoft gun and anyone nearby should always wear protective eyewear. Read all instructions before using. Always use care and shoot safely.

                    (Some emphasis added)
                    •  Air "guns" are not firearms and not restricted (0+ / 0-)

                      in NYS.

                      http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/...

                      Each State can define and regulate as they see fit.  NYS has made it clear, they are not weapons.

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:50:55 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes, and no. (0+ / 0-)

                        Air guns are not firearms, but are among weapons subject to restrictions --- and are covered in NYS statutes.

                        See cited sections elsewhere in this thread.

                        •  What part are we not agreeing with here? (0+ / 0-)

                          Most everything is regulated in this society AND most things are not considered weapons, as BB guns are not.

                          You want them to be labeled "weapons" so you can fulfill and justify your fear porn agenda.  

                          That is why I spoke up in your diary.

                          Please stop this manipulation, it does no one any good.

                          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                          by gerrilea on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:08:24 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

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