Skip to main content

View Diary: On Gun Control and Germans (Or, Why the Right is Wrong about Guns and Hitler) (47 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Put it this way.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldpunk

    It's a common anti-hunting statement "What if we arm the deer and they shoot back? How many would go hunting then?"

    Well, the anti-semitism that existed does not inspire the jewish persecution by itself. Of KEY importance is that the jews had no strength to defend themselves.

    Of great similarity are the black sections of town during jim crow, when blacks were kept as disarmed as possible. And so defenseless, Klan members who hated them were able to ride through unopposed by anything of any strength. It was not the Klan hatred alone that allowed those night riders, it was the combination of klan hatred and black disarmament.

    The disarmament effectively enabled the hatred to run free.

    I'm not at all enamored of the idea of some devout evangelist getting into the white house in a dozen years, after some extreme gun control laws have been put in place through knee jerk reactions in 2013, and that evangelist acting in accordance with a tea party congress to rid america of "unpatriotic godless" segment of the population.

    Any doubts that the nation can be so divided, I ask "Have you now or have you ever been associated with the communist party?"

    McCarthyism is not dead. Just sleeping.

    It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink.

    by JayFromPA on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 03:36:50 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Historical parallels (3+ / 0-)

      The historical parallels are compelling in these cases, and hatred has a longer half-life than our memories.

      I did acknowledge that the knowledge that the persecuted group (Jews, in the diary example) has no weapon to fight you with makes them an easier target. But I have to direct you back to the circumstances of this particular instance.

      The Night of Broken Glass was a series of coordinated attacks to convince the German public that the Jewish people should have their rights taken away. Even if the Jewish people had their arms post-Kristallnacht, I am convinced that the German government would have pointed to a standard case of self-defense of a Jew against an anti-Semitic aggressor as a sign of the correctness of their policies.

      I can't argue for every instance of peoples being disarmed in history. I can only argue for this particular one because it's the one the right loves to point to when railing against any type of gun control.

    •  Think you've got a chance against the Army? (3+ / 0-)

      And the Air Force?  

      Seriously, this kind of thinking is silly.  If the government should decide to do something like what you describe (a fairly hysterical and fantastical idea already), there would be little anyone could do about it.  Simply put, the state has access to firepower that ordinary citizens do not.  So unless you're planning on buying yourself tanks, attack helicopters, and fighter jets, I suggest you forget your fantasies of armed resistance.

      Besides, are you really planning on murdering your fellow citizens?  After all, what you're talking about is armed resistence to the American military, right?  Are you ready to shoot some Army private?  

      Frankly, if this is the best argument you have against gun control, I'd say you're out of ammunition (pun intended).  I know there are militia groups in Idaho that think this way, but I hadn't expected to see such paranoid fantasies here on DK.

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 05:08:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Remember what alan west wrote.... (0+ / 0-)
        I believe we are headed towards the ultimate ideological clash in America. There is a widening chasm which has developed between those who believe in principled fiscal policies and those desiring the socialist bureaucratic nanny-state.
        and
        I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool.
        http://thinkprogress.org/...

        Remember, he lost by a hair. It was a too close election. West has a lot of supporters.

        It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink.

        by JayFromPA on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:57:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Alan West? Seriously? (0+ / 0-)

          So you think the words of a one-term congressman who lost his re-election bid demonstrates that the U.S. government is going to embark on some kind of new Holocaust?

          Wow.  I was thinking earlier that "paranoid fantasies" might have been a little strong.  I see that it was pretty much on the money.

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:37:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  How many voted for him? eom. (0+ / 0-)

            It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink.

            by JayFromPA on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 04:05:29 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  And this isn't about the army. (0+ / 0-)

            This isn't about me and the army. Quit trying to drag me off topic. I was sleepy last night after going to see django unchained - great movie IMO. The Alan West quote was to point out that there is a group of people who have severe hate of another group of people JUST FOR POLITICAL REASONS, RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA TODAY.

            How much more emphasis must I use to point that out to you?

            This is about how disarmament of Group A created the OPPORTUNITY for Group A to be abused and persecuted by Group B.

            Disarmed blacks and the Klan.
            Peasants and serfs and the French nobility.
            Modern tibetans and the Han chinese.
            Darfur.

            And to some lesser extent this applies to other group interactions such as
            Kurds and Saddam Hussein.
            Current day Syrians and King Assad

            And in the future this can easily apply to
            Non evangelists and an evangelical Potus.

            This opportunistic oppression happens. Fill in OTHER examples for yourself as an academic exercise.

            It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink.

            by JayFromPA on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 04:15:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Group A and Group B? (0+ / 0-)

              What is this?  A grammar school math problem?  Who the hell are you talking about?  Who's in which group?  And once you figure out who's in Group A, maybe you can then explain how only they will be disarmed so that the dastardly but-as-yet-unidentified members of Group B can "oppress" them.

              BTW, even though you say it's not about the army, pretty much every one of your examples involves a central government using its military to oppress people.  So even if your analogies were valid (and they're not even close) you'll be up against the American military, a fact which you seem to concede when you throw out the fear of an "evangelical POTUS."

              Not only is this paranoid fantasy, it's not even terribly well thought through.  I'm sure there are some survivalist authors who could provide you with a better story line.  

              "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

              by FogCityJohn on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:02:48 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site