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View Diary: The end of world as we know it . . . (186 comments)

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  •  I am afraid it is a different scale (0+ / 0-)

    Tailings are highly localized and can be contained.  Climate change is global and cannot be.   In any event given that the alternative is coal which is worse on all fronts that is not much of an argument. I am reminded of the people opposing solar because of tortoises that are doomed if the climate heats up.  Nuclear is in fact far safer than either coal or oil.

    In any event, I think the notion that renewables and efficiency are far more cost effective is the clincher, especially if storage can be figured out.  

    Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

    by Mindful Nature on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 09:25:50 PM PST

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    •  Yes nuclear power worked out so well in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sue B, Bisbonian

      Fukushima.

      ❧To thine ownself be true

      by Agathena on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:37:46 AM PST

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      •  Actually (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Words In Action

        Compared to the number of deaths and disease caused by coal, yes

        I think people are far too sanguine about how dangerous coal slag, dust and spot are

        Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

        by Mindful Nature on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:19:26 AM PST

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      •  It occurs to me (1+ / 0-)
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        Words In Action

        That as bad as Fukushima and Chernobyl were, nuclear at its worst has not even come close to threatening to killing millions and destroying civilization the way fossil fuels are doing right now

        Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

        by Mindful Nature on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:55:08 AM PST

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        •  We don't actually know how many (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Words In Action

          nuclear has killed.  When you look at the rise in background radiation and the rise in cancer over the years it's clear that nuclear has played a pretty bad role in killing folks, but we really can't know how bad it's been.

          nuclear at its worst has not even come close to threatening to killing millions and destroying civilization the way fossil fuels are doing right now
          Certainly not nuclear power plants, if you know what I mean.
          •  more or less a fair point (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, Words In Action

            we don't have particularly good data, although to be fair, the overwhelming amount of radioactive material released derives from medical uses.  The estimates I've seen put that at 1,000 times what the nuclear fuel cycle releases and is much more pervasive.  Also, in many climates Radon is a far more important source as well.

            Currently, the occupational health standards are at 5,000 milirem per year, while background rates from all sources combined sit at around 300 milli rem.  Thus, background levels might cause cancers, but it seems that given our understanding of what kind an how much radiation it takes to be bioactive, the evidence suggests strongly otherwise.

            Also, I don't think cancer rates are particularly informative, since increases of cancer rates also develop from the pervasive chemical pollution which has been documented world wide and also medical improvements in treating other diseases (since preventing early mortality from other causes will drive up the incidence of cancers as people live long enough to develop them.  If you die from nothing else, eventually you will get cancer.)

            So, in reality we don't know how bad it is (I've seen estimates from Fukushima from 200 to 14,000 (although the latter involved laughably bad methodology)).

            On balance, the evidence suggest that mortality from nuclear power is an unknown, but very low, number.

            Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

            by Mindful Nature on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 12:59:40 PM PST

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          •  and yes (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, Words In Action

            nuclear weapons definitely fall within the civilization destroying category!

            Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

            by Mindful Nature on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 01:00:18 PM PST

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          •  We don't know how many because they are still (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Words In Action

            dying. Children in the area are now coming down with thyroid cancer.

            ❧To thine ownself be true

            by Agathena on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:52:17 PM PST

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            •  We don't know, but it must be low? (0+ / 0-)
              On balance, the evidence suggest that mortality from nuclear power is an unknown, but very low, number.
              That's very scientific of you.

              ❧To thine ownself be true

              by Agathena on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:57:58 PM PST

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