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View Diary: If you don't have kids you have no value to society (301 comments)

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  •  it's blatant discrimination (10+ / 0-)

    and it's AZ. I don't know how they get away with it.

    •  The Medicaid law is intentionally punitive, or it (12+ / 0-)

      wouldn't be written that way.  It's no accident, that's for sure.

      The intent is to "encourage procreation," or to make it more lucrative for couples to have children.

      Tax laws are written the same way.  

      Mollie

      “If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

      by musiccitymollie on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:04:59 PM PST

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      •  it's utter madness and archaic (5+ / 0-)

        I just don't understand the reasoning for any of it so I figure it's GOT to be something religious. Ugh.

      •  I don't think that's true (6+ / 0-)

        I do think (1) most adults have children, so right off the bat they're the squeaky wheel that gets the grease when it comes to tax breaks.

        And (2) it's just plain cost-to-benefit when there isn't enough social safety net money to meet everyone's needs: it is in society's best financial interests (i.e., it will be cheaper overall) to keep parents with dependent children just healthy enough that they can continue to house the kids -- this means the state won't have to assume the financial burden of fostering those kids.

        The bottom line is that taxpayers and politicians are unwilling to pay enough taxes to take care of all who need care.

        YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

        by raincrow on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:23:39 PM PST

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        •  I'll just have to slightly (and respectfully) (11+ / 0-)

          disagree with you a bit on this one (if you're addressing my comment--hard to tell for sure).

          Seriously, I've seen this discussion in policy papers.  It's not a secret among policymakers, especially think tank economists.  

          Now, unless you catch them testifying (which I pretty often do) in Congressional hearings on C-Span, you may not hear the policies related quite like I'm stating it.

          But, if you have the opportunity to listen to policy hearings on C-Span 1, 2 and 3, do so. It is not necessarily 'evil' to set up programs and/or tax laws which encourage (or in some cases discourage) certain behaviors.  The irony is, conservatives years ago complained that Dems did this constantly.  Now, they ascribe to this as much as Dems (but usually with a worse outcome to the individual).

          Now, I certainly won't argue your economic point about "keeping parents with dependent children just healthy enough that they can continue to house the kids -- this means the state won't have to assume the financial burden of fostering those kids."  This is exactly why economists have written Medicaid laws as they have.

          But, I disagree that "there isn't enough social safety net money to meet everyone's needs . . ."  

          That's a matter of priorities.  So I reject the thinking that there isn't sufficient money to take care of everyone.  After all, that adult with no dependent children also becomes a financial burden on society if stricken with a catastophic illness.  The only difference is that it does not additionally affect a dependent child or children.

          Anyway, check out the hearings if you get a chance.  Believe me, the health care economists are VERY FRANK, and sound nothing like the politicians.  They don't run for office, and they are blatant about policies.  

          The idea that our government is trying to create an incentive for procreation through tax credits is definitely not out-in-left-field.  That's one reason for the push for immigration reform, and opening up our southern borders--our lower fertility rate.  The PtB have been frantic for over thirty years that the fertility rate in the US has dropped.  Think I just read that it's at an all time low.  Here's the link to, and title of the piece.

          U.S. Birth Rate Hits All-Time Low/Teen birth rate also falls to record low

          Continuing a 12-year decline, the U.S. birth rate has dropped to the lowest level since national data have been available, according to statistics just released by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).
          Thanks for the discussion.

          Mollie

          “If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

          by musiccitymollie on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:47:10 PM PST

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          •  There isn't enough social safety net money (0+ / 0-)

            to meet everyone's needs... [because] taxpayers and politicians are unwilling to pay enough taxes to take care of all who need care. The majority of taxpayers don't want to pay enough taxes to keep our public schools repaired, well supplied, and well administered. The majority of taxpayers don't want to pay enough taxes to subsidize even a 2-year degree  for every willing high school graduate. The majority of taxpayers don't want to pay enough taxes to fund safe, competent daycare centers.

            I understand that some policymakers still believe in incentivizing breeders, and especially Republicans have made no secret of their desire to give white breeders an extra extra tax break to keep the GOP in a reliable supply of angry old white men. But the social climate is nothing like it was in, say, the 50s or even the late 70s, when the decision to forego childbearing was far more stigmatized than today.

            YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

            by raincrow on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 05:26:12 PM PST

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